Kevin Cooper, set to be executed for a crime he did not commit (Image Source: Attorney's for Kevin Cooper)

Kevin Cooper, set to be executed for a crime he did not commit (Image source: Attorneys for Kevin Cooper)

California is set to execute death row inmate Kevin Cooper for a brutal murder that occurred in 1983. Cooper was sentenced to death in 1985 for the brutal murder of a family in the Chino Hills suburb of Los Angeles. Law enforcement insists that Cooper killed Douglas and Peggy Ryen, their 10-year-old daughter Jessica, and 10-year-old Chris Hughes, who was staying with the family the night of the murders. There was one survivor, a then 8-year-old Josh Ryen who had his throat cut and was left for dead. Cooper at the time had escaped from a minimum security prison and was hiding out at a nearby residence at the time of the murder and police focused their attention on him as the chief suspect in the case. When he was finally arrested police claimed that evidence including a bloody footprint, a drop of blood and a piece of cigarette paper tied him to the crime scene. But when Josh Ryen recovered from his injuries, he stated that it was three white or Hispanic men that attacked and killed his family and that Cooper was not involved. This started a chain of events that now indicate a startling 30 year cover up and blatant falsification of evidence by law enforcement and the prosecutor’s office in the case. This includes the fact that the blood at the crime scene did not belong to Cooper and contained the DNA of two people. But now there is no sample left because it was consumed during the testing process.

There is ample proof that crime scene evidence appears to have been fabricated by law enforcement in a vicious racially motivated investigation. When the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Dept. indicated that a Black man was being held as a suspect, a stuffed monkey was hanged outside the courthouse with a sign that said “Kill the N-word.” Cooper’s conviction on the murder charges was appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court, which became bitterly divided. His conviction was upheld but five of the federal judges issued a blistering 103 page dissent. These judges stated, “There is no way to say this politely. The district court failed to provide Cooper a fair hearing. The district court impeded and obstructed Cooper’s attorneys at every turn. [T]he court imposed unreasonable conditions, refused discovery that should have been available as a matter of course; limited testimony that should not have been limited; and found facts unreasonably, based on a truncated and distorted record. Public confidence in the proper administration of the death penalty depends on the integrity of the process followed by the state. … So far as due process is concerned, twenty-four years of flawed proceedings are as good as no proceedings at all.”  The judges found that the prosecution and the Sheriff’s office destroyed, tampered with and hid from the defense significant evidence that the jury never heard. Finally, in a damning statement the judges wrote, “The State of California may be about to execute an innocent man.”

In 2015, Cooper’s case was the subject of an episode CNN’s “Death Row Stories.” In that broadcas,t startling evidence and statements from those tied to the case show that Cooper should be freed. These facts are listed on a defense website savekevincooper.org and are as follows:

  • The coroner who investigated the Ryen murders concluded that the murders took four minutes at most and that the murder weapons were a hatchet, a long knife, an ice pick and perhaps a second knife. How could a single person, in four or fewer minutes, wield three or four weapons, and inflict over 140 wounds on five people, two of whom were adults (including a 200 pound ex-marine) who had loaded weapons near their bedsides?
  • Two days after the crimes were discovered; the Sheriff’s Department issued a “Criminal Bulletin” stating the suspects were “three . . . white or Mexican males,” one wearing a “blue short-sleeve shirt.” In 2004, the defense uncovered that the day after the murders a Sheriff’s deputy recovered a blue shirt with blood on it near the scene of the crimes. The prosecution never disclosed this blue shirt to the defense, and it is now “missing.”
  • A woman identified as a girlfriend of one of the possible murderers alerted the sheriff’s department that her boyfriend, a convicted murderer, left blood-spattered coveralls at her home the night of the murders.  She also reported that her boyfriend owned a hatchet matching the one recovered near the scene of the crime, which she noted was missing in the days following the murders; it never reappeared; further, her sister saw that boyfriend in a vehicle that could have been the Ryens’ car on the night of the murders.
  • The Sheriff’s deputy who destroyed the bloody coveralls lied at trial when he testified that he acted on his own in destroying them. In 1998, over 13 years after the trial, the defense uncovered a Sheriff’s office “disposition report” that showed that the deputy’s supervisor had in fact approved the destruction of the coveralls. That report was never turned over to the defense, and the jury thus never knew that the testimony they heard from the deputy was false.

It will now be up to California Governor Jerry Brown to decide whether Cooper will die by lethal injection in the coming weeks.

"Mo Betta" Maurice "Mo" Barnes is a graduate of Morehouse College and Political Scientist based in Atlanta. Mo is also a Blues musician.

  • Exoctic 1

    How unfortunate

    • tracy smith

      Tell your mama that.

      • Exoctic 1

        Go suck a dick @tracysmith…. BIOTCHHHHH… If you don’t like what I said then Bitch go eat some pusssssssss.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      he did it-the evidence is overwhelming

      • Darlene R

        You must be related to the officers that framed him.

        • NORMAN DOSTAL

          youre an idiot-the “framing” youre speaking of is impossible. You know he raped TWO women also, right? why do you hate women? didn’t you used to be one?

          • Ras Heru

            Yeah, show documented proof of the evidence bish…

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            read the court case-700 pieces-youre the imbecile trying to prove a rapist/murderer innocent! Cant wait for him to die

          • DarthYan

            Not really fuckhead.

            Also given that the footprints weren’t found until after the crime scene was torn down and after Baird (who stole heroin from lockup) got a pro ked dude you’re being disingenuous.

          • DarthYan

            not really. Gregonis altered lab records when the tests didn’t prove it was cooper the first time. Baird stole heroin. Kottaeier admitted he struck the scene purely as a “fuck you” to the defense. It’s not only possible, it’s probable.

          • Scooter Livingston

            You’re a fucking dick…you know that?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            because I want a man who raped two women and murdered four people dead? phuck off, bleeding heart biitch

          • Scooter Livingston

            Bet you didn’t mind when William Calley was pardoned…he murdered babies.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            No , dummy. He should have been executed too. ALL murderers must die

          • Scooter Livingston

            You know who Calley was?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            yes he killed numerous civilians during war and was let off

          • TheFreshPrince

            actually he didn’t do the real suspects hair were found in the girl hand and the color of the hair was blonde (yellow) showing that it was clearly a white male that did it with another accomplice.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            nope-haha-animal hair

          • Lisa O’Brien

            That is untrue. Cooper’s request to test the hairs in Jessica’s hands was granted and MtDNA testing was done. Peggy, Josh and Jessica could not be excluded as donors of the majority of those hairs. Other hairs were determined to be animal hairs.

            As with Cooper’s many other claims, the evidence that he wanted to find was not there because it doesn’t exist.

      • Theo van Rossum

        Oh do tell me all about the “evidence” now.

        • NORMAN DOSTAL

          too much to list-700 pieces-google it (its a search engine)

          • Shwah Kram

            I call your bluff bigot.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            Google it, dumb bitch

  • Rainmaker

    This is ridiculously criminal when the State puts someone on death row for decades for a crime they didn’t commit. Sick people that would do this to anyone!

    • Iva Sue McCoy

      criminals. Guilty of treason. And premeditated homicide. Hang them

      • Paul Mayende

        b’se they are black?

        • NORMAN DOSTAL

          no, stupid, because they killed chidlren

          • DarthYan

            no they didn’t. You ignored that Siuzdak refused to submit raw data, that the logs regarding the blue shirt were never turned over, the fact that there were TWO sets of blood in Cooper’s vial even though the vial was only drawn WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            all evidence says no-hes a murderer and he will die

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      no, dummy-do some research-it is 100% certain Cooper murdered these people-there was a mountain of evidence-why did he have their car?? and that’s just one thing! duuuh

      • DarthYan

        he didn’t though. The cigarettes were found on the THIRD search, they were under the PASSENGER seat, there was blood on the “BACK SEAT” and most damningly of all the cigarettes not only vanished but “reappeared” radically different.

        Also the car was found a few blocks from where Lee Furrow’s mother figure lived. Lee Furrow killed the Ryens, not Kevin Cooper. The police planted evidence because they were corrupt and racist.

        • NORMAN DOSTAL

          who cares when it was found? what about the shoe print from the prison? that planted too? and Coopers DNA in the car? that planted too? and the house he stayed in? the blood was planted there? we get it-you hate cops-but this is absurdism! youre bending over backwards to prove a piece of shiit guilty mans innocence-it won work-nope-they didn’t plant the evidence-that’s stupid

          • DarthYan

            1.) It matters because it means it may have been planted. The location also matters since I doubt Cooper sat in the passenger seat.
            2.) the Shoe WASN’T NECESSARILY FROM THE PRISON. The prosecution deliberately hid a statement that would have contradicted this
            3.) The blood was found far from the murder site, and the guy who located it was fired for committing grand larceny, but never imprisoned even though they knew he was guilty. The vial also had a history of vanishing and “reappearing.” The blood vial had TWO people’s blood in it and was checked out for 24 hours a few years prior to testing).

            DA Kottmeir tore the scene down before an analysis was completed, but what little was done implied doug ryan fought back against his attacker(s). Given that he and Peggy both had loaded weapons, that jessica made it out of the house briefly, that three different weapons were used AND that Cooper would have had to done all this within five minutes it really makes me question the intelligence of people who think he’s guilty. If you think one man could do all that I have swampland in Florida to sell you

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            no-you don’t get to say “it may have been planted” with NO evidence whatsoever-and his lawyers have ZERO evidence it was planted. 99% of cops don’t plant evidence-and if you really believe that, you have to believe ALL evidence was planted-the shoe prints? (NO-the shoe was from the prison-that was proven), the blood in the house he broke into? His DNA in the victims’ house? thats ridiculous and you know it. Why not charge the cops if it was planted? because it was not and there is ZERO proof of it!

          • DarthYan

            After the trial the guy who found the stain was found to be stealing crack cocaine from lockup. Even though they knew the guy was guilty they didn’t press charges. The “blood” has a history of vanishing and resurfacing. With the cigarettes they reappeared…..physically different. There’s PLENTYto suggest the cops planted evidence. That you disagree isn’t my problem

            So I have every right to suggest

            Judge fletcher went into detail about how the “proof” the blood on the shirt wasn’t planted didn’t hold up; he was told that’s nice we don’t care.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            youre just repeating the same garbage that has been disproven. He got a fair trial, he was found guilty., the pike of shiit will fry for his awful crimes. Theres no evidence the cops planted anything-none at all. If there were, the lawyers would file a grievance (they haven’t)

          • Travis Aleman

            If the young boy says 3 white men or Hispanic I believe him none of u was there and he was left there for dead I really don’t think he would lie for anyone after that

          • DarthYan

            No I don’t. Given that the time it was found matters, the shoe print was NOT unique, that the car was found in literally the OPPOSITE direction Cooper was heading (he was in Tijuana at a certain point; it would have been impossible for him to have left the car like that as the prosecution contended and still gotten there.) You failed to explain why the blood was only found on later searches, and why the DA destroyed the crime scene before the examination was done. I mean for the love of god THE TRIAL JUDGE said the police botched the examination

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            wrong-the shoe print was proven to be form the prison. and Cooper raped a woman too-why are you defending this human shiit? don’t you care about those two little kids that were killed? shame on your kind

          • DarthYan

            No actually don luck said the shoes could have been gotten in retail. There were not a lot sold in retail but there were a few. Also what kind of man he was is irrelevant. If he didn’t do it you don’t execute someone

          • DarthYan

            also shitbird baird only found the print AFTER he got a copy of the shoesin his lab Considering the guy was caught stealing drugs to sell I think it’s possible nay probable he planted it

          • fuk_da_hood

            What about the kids testimony? That isn’t planted.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            the kid said it was ONE person. You mean when he couldn’t speak because his throat was cut? he squeezed the cops hand and told him three guys were there earlier-when he COULD speak, he said ONE person only-Cooper

          • DarthYan

            Originally the kid fingered three white dudes. He was traumitized and if the officers kept saying OH No no no it was cooper it wouldn’t be hard to trick the kid. The kid said that at first it WASN’T cooper and eyewitness testimony tends to be most reliable when it’s given initially. In short, the initial impression of three white men was more likely. Add to the fact that two witnesses saw the ryen’s station wagon bursting away with three white men in it, that three witnesses saw men covered in blood, that the cops tried to intimidate one of the witnesses, the fact that when the officers were given coveralls belonging to Lee Furrow (a vicious monster who easily eclipsed Kevin Cooper) the cops destroyed it even though by law they were obligated to test it and turn it over to the defense, combined with the fact that the guy who testified destroying it on his own was caught lying (records showed that the guy had in fact been ordered…..) Yeah I’m pretty sure it was Lee Furrow who killed the Ryens, not Kevin Cooper.

            Notably the defense tried to point the finger at a guy named KEnneth Koon as well. Koon denied it, but also said he didn’t mind them using him, since he didn’t think cooper deserved to die. It could be that Koon was involved and had a guilty conscience.

            Either way if by some bizzare chain of events new DNA testing is done and it fingers furrow I’m going to be laughing my ass off.

          • DarthYan

            also no he asked “are you sure it’s the right guy.” He only said it was cooper after october 1983 months later.

          • DarthYan

            poor norman. He fails to realize that Josh continued to say cooper didn’t do it for months. Lee killed them. Hopefully Kenneth Koon will admit his guilt and give the governor incentive to do real tests

          • DarthYan

            it wasn’t unique. Also, given that the blood was on the BACK seat (what did cooper climb around like a momnkey.)

            I’m bending over in no way. You’re bending over trying to explain corrupt behavior. Kottmeir admitted he tore down the scene purely to screw over the defense. Anyone who is willing to do that is almost CERTAINLY willing to forge evidence to get ahead. Also, when the judges in 09 put the matter to a vote…..it was by ONE vote that cooper was denied a new trial. Far more than the judges who thought him innocent felt he was robbed of a fair trial.

            Unless you address Kottmeir’s destruction of the scene purely to impede the defense (which is blatantly unethical) the fact that when Baird committed grand larceny he wasn’t prosecuted for it, why the sheriff pled guilty to avoid prison time for embezzlement, and why there were TWO sets of blood in that vial, I have to conclude that you’re deliberately being blind.

          • Shwah Kram

            Are you a SB piggy or just a standard KKK member?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            because I want a murderer to die? you brought up skin color, dumb ass

        • NORMAN DOSTAL

          it is indeed overwhelming-sorry you want all guilty people freed-some weird bleeding heart thing from you, but he will die- http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Kevin-Cooper-is-guilty-3231420.php

          • DarthYan

            and you aren’t actually answering my points; I’m familiar with saunders; she’s an idiot who at best ignores contradictions to her theory and at worst outright ignores them.

            Judge McKeowen (who denied Cooper’s appeal) AGREED that the prosecution probably did withhold evidence and that things weren’t straightforward. The antiterrorism act of 1996 blocked her from doing more. Of the 2009 panel 12 judges agreed Cooper was entitled to a new trial. The vote that denied him was decided by one or two. As such I think Saunders is an idiot. If Cooper lives I look forward to those who want him to die screaming with rage.

          • DarthYan

            no it isn’t. You failed to explain why the cigarettes were physically different when they resurfaced. You failed to explain why they were found in the passenger seat if Cooper was the driver; you failed to explain that when people resurfaced claiming they saw three white men in the bar that night the cops basically told them “don’t you fucking dare tell what you saw”. People have committed mass murder for less reason and if the cops really got it wrong they had EVERY reason to lie their asses off.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            all you have is tiny little discrepancies which are common in every single murder case. You wait video? you don’t get it-the evidence was overwhelming because Cooper was sloppy. He murdered the people. His DNA was in the house-he claimed he never went into the house-. That’s enough proof there but we also have the cigarettes, the blood in the house, the shoe prints, the stolen car-he was a habitual criminal-he raped a woman! people always claim to know something about crimes-its called fame whoring-they aren’t to be believed.

          • DarthYan

            There are a lot of discrepancies.

            And repeating your assertions doesn’t make the true.

            When the only source is a blood spot far from the actual site when the guy had no cuts damn right I’m sceptical. The car was found in another direction the cigarettes were in the PASSENGER seat

            Since you mention the car…they left their keys in the car and cooper wouldn’t have needed to break in; he was experienced hotwiring.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            you repeating made up discrepancies doesn’t make them true either-the case was solid-everything else was made up. You think the cops “planted” cigarettes in the passenger seat? that doesn’t make sense. You really think at least four or five men agreed to set this guy up? that never happens. omygod -I cant believe you defend this human shiit-this rapist, this thief, this killer

          • DarthYan

            If cooper was the driver why would the cigarettes be down the side of the passenger seat? During the trial people were saying “hang the nigger”. If the cops were racist (it was the 80s) and already had their opinions they would absolutelybagree

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            because he threw them to the side-youre really reaching with that!! why would a cop framing him put the cigs on the wrong side?

          • Ben Mullins

            Who the f*** throws their cigarettes to the side in the car? Especially when you can probably imagine, that the windows were open? I mean, honestly. You try to rip on people with their points and their validity, but then you go and say something as stupid as, ‘he was throwing them there”

          • DarthYan

            fun fact; officer moran claimed he never set foot in the room yet his prints were found on the closet door. Moran probably planted the sheath

          • DarthYan

            These are the idiots who let 70 people trample an active crime scene. Obviously they’re sloppy

          • DarthYan

            Even more there was blood on the BACK AnD PASSENGER seats. What did cooper climb all over the back seat before driving away.

          • Kiara

            I like how your not answering anyone elses question about the little boys testimony but can sit here and go back and forth about the black guy u don’t even know 😂😂😂😂

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            Turns out the little boy NEVER said there were three people there-he actually said it was ONLY ONE. He couldn’t speak because Cooper slit his throat so it was all communicated through squeezing hands. When he could talk, he said ONE person-Cooper

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            why are you defending a rapist? do you hate women?

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Kiara, the discrepancy with Josh’s testimony was addressed above. Josh suffered severe head injuries in the attack by Cooper. His memory of events was affected by that. Initially, he remembered three Mexican males coming to the Ryen property before they left for the barbecue. He has said that he initially *thought* they had been the ones to attack his family. His statements about the murders only described a single individual, not three Mexican males (or white males).

            Additionally, all of these issues were known by the jury and were before the courts in Cooper’s various post-conviction claims. They remain unproven.

          • DarthYan

            Except that/s not how memory works. And no, the police put out a bulletin looking for three white men.

          • DarthYan

            It really wasn’t. Memory doesn’t work that way and Don Guamaldroy specifically testified that Josh did NOT indicate Mexicans. Initially it was WHITE men. This WAS his statement describing the murder. Only after the sergeant adopted the flawed hand squeeze system (in which Josh was gotten to say he didn’t have a white station wagon when he did.) That things began to deviate.

            Others in the room described similar things.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            You’re ignoring the fact that Josh sustained a severe head injury. The discrepancies in Josh’s statements were an issue the jury considered and are an issue that have been repeatedly addressed by the state and federal courts that have denied Cooper relief. Once again, you’re raising propaganda that is refuted by the actual testimony and evidence. If you would take the time to read the contrary opinions, you would understand why Cooper has failed to prove his claims of actual innocence.

          • DarthYan

            no I’m not. Even with a head injury initial recollections are usually more reliable than later ones and Josh only got confused after Sharp adopted the incredibly useless hand squeeze system (he got josh to say the family didn’t have a white station wagon when they did)

          • Stacy Huffman

            I understand your point of view. Although I don’t agree with you, respectfully.
            Your statement of “You really think at least four or five men agreed to set this guy up? that never happens.” is laughable and grossly incorrect.
            Why don’t you look up the name Douglas Dendinger.
            You know…. Google it. It’s a search engine.
            This is just one of MANY instances of SEVERAL law enforcement officers breaking their oath to protect the innocent. I don’t know you but it seems your viewpoint is racially motivated. And when I say innocent, in this case I mean innocent of this specific crime.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            the complexities of framing someone by numerous people is simply not done today. Yeah-I googled the name, dummy-and yes, it happened and guess what? THEY WERE CAUGHT!! Duh. No traces of impropriety have happened with the Cooper case-no one framed anyone-its just made up by idiotic bleeding heart imbeciles who value a killer/rapists’ life over four innocent people. Why havent the lawyers brought up people of charges for framing? BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!! Shame on you-sick of you people. and drop the racist crap-put that card back in the deck, you docuchebag-this guys is human shiit because he killed two children. I would say string him up no matter what color he is! Youre a moron.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I am familiar with the Dendinger case. It did not occur in San Bernardino, CA and Mr. Dendinger was never tried/convicted/sentenced in the case. Mr. Dendinger was also able to irrefutably prove that he did not commit a battery via a videotape of his service of papers on a deputy. Yes, what the DAs and Sheriff’s employees did in the case is reprehensible. They are currently defendants in a civil lawsuit filed by Mr. Dendiner. Mr. Reed, the DA, is facing numerous criminal fraud charges lodged in connection with the corruption in his office and the two Assistant DAs involved have left the DA’s office. In fact, the Louisiana Attorney General’s office immediately dismissed the charges when the local DA’s office was recused.

            In this specific case, Cooper’s guilt is proven by the DNA from the crime scene, the Ryen vehicle and the tee-shirt. He has yet to prove his allegations of tampering/planting of evidence in the state and federal courts.

            It is your viewpoint that appears to be radically motivated, in that you are using a case from a different jurisdiction as well as a generalization about other jurisdictions to support your argument that the investigation of the Ryen murders and everyone involved in Cooper’s prosecution were corrupt.

            Cooper’s DNA at the crime scene and in the Ryen’s vehicle, as well as his DNA and that of Doug Ryen on the tan tee-shirt demonstrate that he is guilty of the murders of Doug, Peggy and Jessica Ryen and Chris Hughes. He was convicted after a trial and that conviction has been affirmed in state and federal courts over the past 33 years.

          • DarthYan

            a.) the blood was found in the BACKSEAT of the victim’s car, and the cigarettes were only found later on the third search of the car.

          • DarthYan

            The Cigarettes were only found on the third search and when tested were REROLLED and larger.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            This was an issue presented at trial and the jury found Cooper guilty. It’s also got an element of propaganda to it, given that there is no corroborative documentation available online to support your contentions.

          • DarthYan

            That just means the jury members were idiots.

            Huff herself admitted they were rerolled she just ignored it.

          • Ben Mullins

            I’m not arguing on any of the points for either of you, but his DNA in the house would never be enough evidence to convict him of murder

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            that was ONE piece of 700 pieces of evidence. how about the blood of the Ryens in the house he was in? The hair of the Ryens in the house? His DNA in the car he stole from the Ryens? Or the sheath of the hatchet he used? the cigarettes with the tobacco from the prison? The footprint from the unique soles of the shoes he got from the prison? THAT’s why he was convicted, Bubba.

          • Ben Mullins

            I understand the other stuff in your other arguments. But I’m responding to you saying his dna alone was enough to convict him. There is no difference between your emotional response to this case and anyone else’s. Much of your rebuttals to everyone on here are painted with your emotional reactions (as well as evidence presented) But you can’t exactly tell someone how they are letting their emotions ride in their arguments, and then go ahead and do the same exact thing, Bubba

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            DNA in the murder house is enough to convict-especially since he said he was never in the house. Im not emotional-I respond based on the evidence and the case itself. I am angry that people are spending so much time trying to defend this piece of shit rapist and murderer.

          • Ben Mullins

            So answer this one. And think about it for a minute. Why would Cooper so confidently fee l as though any DNA testing would prove his innocence knowing that any slight amount on scene would go against him? Why would anyone put their stock in something that they know would in turn prove them guilty?

            Are you suggesting that maybe he did so to bide his time?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            because hes ignorant about DNA-OR-yes, most likely-hes just stalling for more time (and it worked)–why are you so confident that the 700 pieces of evidence against Cooper were all planted? Do you know how impossible that would be? how many people would have to be involved?

          • Lisa O’Brien

            He had nothing to lose. When the results of the DNA testing further inculpated him, he claimed it was all planted and was successful in having his 2004 execution stayed. It has been 12 years and he has yet to produce any evidence to support his tampering claims.

            DarthYan, the location of the cigarette butts is nothing more than speculation. Cooper had been arrested for vehicle theft before, so he may have stayed in the passenger seat of the car whenever he stopped. He may have slept in the passenger side, or the back seat between stealing the car and dumping it in Long Beach prior to his flight to Mexico.

            The difference in one of the cigarette butts has been addressed by the 9th Circuit, when it affirmed the denial of Habeas:

            ” Cooper also insists that the fact that the size of one of the cigarettes (V-12) changed by 3 millimeters after having been unrolled for testing demonstrates tampering, but his position was rejected by [510 F.3d 883] the San Diego County Superior Court after an evidentiary hearing and Cooper has not overcome the deference due that determination under 28 U.S.C. § 2254(d). The first measurement (4 mm) was of a “butt,” whereas the second measurement (7 mm) is one of two dimensions given for “burned paper in box 7×7 mm.” It is clear that the second measurement is of unrolled paper, whereas the first measurement is of the rolled butt. That the dimensions would be different is self-evident, and the difference in no way calls into question the state court’s finding or requires further inquiry at this stage.”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.2d 870, 882 (9th Cir.2007).

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            Lisa, I simply cannot believe how many people are defending this human shiit that clearly murdered four people. Why do they do this? A pscyh study I read said many people that are adamant against the death penalty have psuhcological scars that they are trying to heal. What do you think? The Cooper case is clearly overwhelming with how guilty is. Same with Tookie a few years back-what motivates these people? Are they so guilty and phucked up in their heads that they defend killers and rapists? Look up Stacy above-she accused me of racism because cooper is black (hint-hes a killer!!)-talk about misdirection!!

          • Mads

            Just think about.
            One guy … managing to kill four people with 3-4 different weapons on just a few minutes … with 0 people getting away.

            Does that sound likely to you?

            Afterwards, when the ONLY actual witness is asked, he testifies that the crime was committed by three white skinned males.

            Does it sound likely to you that it instead, should have been committed by one black skinned male?

            “On June 9, a woman named Diana Roper called the Sheriff’s Department to
            tell them that her boyfriend, Lee Furrow, had come home in the early
            hours on the night of June 4. He arrived in an unfamiliar station wagon
            with some people who stayed in the car. He changed out of his overalls,
            which he left on the floor of a closet. He was not wearing a t-shirt
            that he had been wearing earlier in the day. He left the house after
            about five minutes and did not return. [Roper and her father] both
            concluded that the overalls were spattered with blood. Roper turned the
            overalls over to the Sheriff’s Department and told the deputy that she
            thought Furrow was involved in the murders. Roper later provided an
            affidavit stating that a bloody t-shirt found beside the road leading
            from the murder house had been Furrow’s. It was a Fruit-of-the-Loom
            t-shirt with a breast pocket. Roper stated that she recognized it
            because she had bought it for him. She also stated that a bloody hatchet
            found beside the road matched a hatchet that was now missing from her
            garage. […] The Sheriff’s Department never tested the overalls for
            blood, never turned them over to Cooper or his lawyers, and threw them
            away in a dumpster on the day of Cooper’s arraignment.

            Does it sound likely to you that this would happen on the same knight … without being related to the crime … and if so, who did they kill?

            A girl at a bar saw three guys come in, at least one soaked in blood … on the exact same night!

            Does it seem likely to you that this would happen on the exact same night, without being related to the crime.

            And then add up in these four events …
            What are the odds?

            Now when you answer … please be honest and do not let the obvious emotional stress this matter brings up in you cloud your judgement :).

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            this violent POS could have killed numerous people-it happens all the time. All evidence points to him-its overwhelming. Youre really saying you think numerous of cops all conspired to frame this innocent rapist who happened to be next door while this family was killed? I cant even…
            NOPE-the survivor said he did NOT say that at all-he was communicating without speaking and the cop misunderstood him-dont lie-he said it was ONE person-one person-and that was Cooper.
            Roper was not a reliable witness

          • Mads

            Around
            midnight on the night of the murders, a couple, attempting to exit a
            driveway in their truck, saw three young white men driving rapidly down
            the only road that leads away from the Ryens’ house in a station wagon
            that it turned out was stolen from the murdered family.

            Shortly
            after that sighting, two women in a nearby bar saw two young white men,
            one wearing coveralls, with blood splatter on their faces and clothing.

            Fourdays after the murders, another woman (Roper) turned into the sheriff’s office bloody coveralls her boyfriend, a convicted murderer, had left on the
            floor of her closet. The woman stated she had other
            information that implicated her boyfriend in the murders but wanted to
            be interviewed by homicide detectives. She would have told
            them that her boyfriend’s hatchet was missing and that he no longer had
            the tan T-shirt he wore the Saturday of the murders.

            They are all unreliable, … and the coveralls were too?
            Remember that witnesses unrelated to the crime, have no motive to lie.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            the girl in the bar said she wasn’t sure it was blood-she said it may have been paint so nope

          • Mads

            Oh the actual statement would be nice to see … but we do have at least three separate incidents of people, seeing men splattered with something that looked like blood … on the EXACT night of the murder.
            Strange … is it not.

            The car was found in the opposite direction of where Cooper checked in, 130 miles from the crime scene at 4.30 in the morning.

            No wonder why they did not execute him, he is clearly not guilty of the crime.

          • DarthYan

            specially since the mruder was at midnight

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            this debunks every thing you brought up-now ask yourself without your emotionally bleeding heart spilling all over the place-why are you so sure he didn’t do it when all evidence and 99% of all people think he did it? There is more evidence in this case than c=vast majority of murders!! Are you trying to silence your inner lambs? http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/CooperReview.htm

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            sorry-Roper wasn’t credible

            1. The girlfriend of a former inmate friend of Cooper’s, thought her boyfriend might have been involved in the murder. She turned his bloody coveralls over to the local Yucaipa sheriff’s substation, but they threw out the coveralls without testing them.

            This girlfriend, Diane Roper, was dismissed by law enforcement as completely lacking credibility. She was a professed witch who claimed she had a vision during a trance that the murder had been committed after she heard about the Ryen case. However, she had no substantive reason to believe her boyfriend was involved with Cooper the night of the murder. In fact, she told sheriff’s investigators that she did not even know to whom the coveralls belonged. She said she “just knew” from the vision that the coveralls were connected to the case. By the time the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department heard about her fantastic story, they had Cooper in custody with mountains of evidence (see above) against him. Based on their limited resources and already having the likely killer in custody, the San Bernardino County police chose not to expend precious time and money chasing Roper’s crazy story.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            3. Josh Ryen told the police he thought three men committed the attack. He later changed his story.

            When Josh was rescued the day after the murders, he could not talk because his throat had been slashed. He could only squeeze the police officer’s hand in response to questions. The story that Josh was finally able to tell police was that he was awakened in the middle of the night by his mother’s screams. When he and his friend Chris went to investigate, he saw the bodies of his parents and Jessica and the backside of one unfamiliar person, so he ran and hid. Then he heard Chris screaming, so Josh ran back towards his friend. At that point, something struck him in the head, knocking him unconscious. He awoke later in a pool of blood.

            When later queried by investigators, Josh spoke of three Mexicans who had come to the house earlier and thought they could have done it because they had been there once before. However, Josh never said he saw three people commit the murders. He consistently told different investigators that he saw only one attacker. The triple murderer theory is merely speculation based on the visit of the three Mexicans and twisting of a little boy’s words.

            Additionally, Josh was an eight-year-old boy who was startled awake by a horrific murder and was brutally attacked. It is unsurprising that probing questions by adults and the power of suggestion later tried to confuse his story. Most important however, Cooper was not convicted on the limited testimony of an eight-year-old. He was convicted by the mountain of other evidence incriminating him.

          • DarthYan

            normally i wouldn’t believe roper. Except three other white people saw three other white men covered in blood and a deputy reported to his superior s that he heard reports. none of the witnesses (Sloaneker wolfe and starke) peeped to the cops. Combine that with blood on the back seat and the the car was near lee furrow’s stepmom, I’m inclined to think lee furrow kenneth koon and michael darnell who did it. Soon claims Darnell and Furrow went in alone and slaughtered the family and he was willing to cough up hair

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The patrons and staff in the Canyon Corral Bar on the night of June 3/4, 1983 did not see men covered in blood. They saw three men, who left in two vehicles, neither of which was a station wagon.

            There’s also no corroboration of Parker’s claim that the car was abandoned near Furrow’s “mother” or “stepmother’s” residence. There’s no corroboration that Furrow’s “mother” or “stepmother” even lived in Long Beach in 1983. I suspect that Parker is pulling things out of thin air to make Cooper appear innocent. If he truly had documentation to back it up, he would have attached that to his declaration.

          • FredZiffel

            “Afterwards, when the ONLY actual witness is asked, he testifies that the crime was committed by three white skinned males.” These types of comments are indicative of the incredible ignorance of most people discussing these types of cases. The individual alluded to never testified to this. The person typing these comments doesn’t even understand the basic facts of the case.

          • DarthYan

            Actually he did. The initial warrant mentioned it. Unfortunately once the cops found out a black man was hiding next door they decided to blame him rather than go after the white suspects. Lee Furrow killed that family, with Michael Darnell and Kenneth Koon

          • FredZiffel

            Excuse me, but a warrant does not contain “testimony.” Your lack of understanding of fundamental legal terminology indicates that discussing this case with you is a waste of time. If it makes you comfortable rationalizing a violent sociopath’s horrible behavior, enjoy wallowing in your delusional ignorance. A “black man” wasn’t hiding next door, a violent, recidivist, felon, mental hospital escapee thief-rapist was hiding next door. Sorry if your fanatic worldview can’t handle that reality.

          • DarthYan

            They put out a warrant based on Josh’s initial description of his attackers as three white men. Josh himself told his psychiatrist “I thought it was the three white men but then I saw on TV it was cooper.” That means they considered the possibility of three white men however briefly. Multiple other witnesses described seeing three white men, and a deputy (who never met Sloanaker wolfe and starke) admitted hearing similar reports that night.

            The cops were telling him for months he was wrong and he saw the news reports on tv. In the case of George Jones (wrongfully accused in chicago) the police did something very similar to the sole survivor.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The SBSD put out a bulletin, not a warrant.

            The deputy, Wilson, stated that he heard rumors, as did a lot of people. His investigation, however, did not substantiate any of those rumors.

          • DarthYan

            it means they took him seriously you fuckwit

          • DarthYan

            It does matter dingus

          • Lisa O’Brien

            DarthYan, I believe I’ve previously corrected this error by another poster. The “bulletin” issued by the SBSD was not a “warrant.” It was more akin to a “BOLO,” identifying three white or hispanic males mentioned by Josh in his initial statements.

            As I’ve previously pointed out, Josh’s initial statements were a product of his head injuries. Josh later stated that he thought the three men had done it. His subsequent statements identified only a single attacker.

            The jury was also aware of Josh’s initial statements and his subsequent statements. He did not testify, but he was questioned by Cooper’s counsel and the flaws in his memory and conflicting statements were addressed by both sides. Cooper’s counsel also cross-examined all of the witnesses about the conflicting aspects of the statements. The jury determined that Josh’s subsequent statements identifying Cooper as the lone attacker were credible and found Cooper guilty.

            You have no basis to continue to accuse Furrow, Koon, or Darnell. All three provided declarations to the prosecutors in Cooper’s habeas claims in 2004 and those declarations were found to be sufficient to exculpate them by the state and federal courts.

            Diana Roper’s statements were not credible in 1983 and they are no more credible now. That is why Cooper’s counsel chose not to call her, or her sister, or her father at Cooper’s trial in 1985.

            There has never been any trace or DNA evidence inculpating either Furrow, Darnell or Koon. Those are just names you choose to keep throwing out without any basis in fact.

          • DarthYan

            it was also a completely different color. It does call it into question. Rymer’s a bigger fool than huff. Fletcher accurately used science to buttress his findings

          • Lisa O’Brien

            What was a completely different color, DarthYan? You continue to throw out propaganda, while ignoring the facts.

            I would not go so far as to call Fletcher a fool, but it’s obvious from his opinion that he had an agenda. He did not use science. He used rhetoric and propaganda to serve his purpose. 90% of his dissent is refuted by the testimony and evidence admitted at trial and the multiple post-conviction hearings.

          • DarthYan

            part of it is that the judge fletcher went into detail about why scientifically it was planted (The samples were impure) and the fact that the prosecutor was a corrupt shithead it’s safe to say it was planted

          • Mads

            Actually Darth is presenting the evidence quite well … why not just listen, instead of sticking to a story that does not add up :).
            Just the idea that he should have been able to kill 2 adults and two big kids … on his own … with 3-4 different weapons, in something like 4 minites … come on.
            What is more important, the truth … or you sticking to what you first believed in?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            the story TOTALLY adds up-the idea that he is innocent is so preposterous-its insulting to the dead! You think eth cops framed this guy with 700 pieces of evidence? The blood? the shoes, the weapons, the sheath, more blood the stolen car-the DNA-its overwhelming!! the kids were tiny-about 75lbs-what big kids? it was dark and ALL evidence points to Cooper-he is VIOLENT-he raped two people-all he had to do was incapacitate the father which would take mere seconds and the Mom-the kids stood around crying and reaching out helplessly in the dark-it was easy to pick them off. You people are disgusting and have no respect for the victims-their blood cries out for Kevins death! and he WILL die

          • Mads

            No, they only had to frame him with the DNA, the cigarettes and the sheath.
            The 700 pieces of evidence is not extremely relevant … what is relevant is what does NOT link him to the murder, and what links others.

            So you are saying that you believe the story that he killed 5 people (2 adults and 3 kids) … with 3-4 weapons in around 4 minutes without anyone fleeing or managing to hinder him/injuring him in any way?

            Please stop repeating the “insult to the dead” … and look at the evidence.

          • DarthYan

            it doesn’t. Norman can’t accept it because he would have to admit the officers lied.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            you really think the cops rolled the cigarettes with the tobacco form the prison and put Kevins DNA on them? my god…

    • southpaw81

      And the government acts surprised when people have no faith in them and question the government’s motives. Any police and/or court official that is caught helping to frame a suspect should get the sentence the suspect would have gotten.

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        he wasn’t framed, stupid-theres no way 4 or 5 people did all of this framing-700 pieces of evidence all framing one person? youre kidding right? OJ innocent too?

  • Cody Packer

    Very interesting but ultimately tragic. Theres a new online video movement on Facebook circulating at the moment called The Execution Project which relates directly to this. Check it out: https://www.facebook.com/AShortFilmAboutExecution/videos/1153453221365482/

    • Rik Van Riel

      It is more than just tragic. If it can happen to him, it can happen to you.

      • msmojo

        NOT ME…. IM WHITE

        • rootbeer08530yahoocom

          Not true at all though more likely for minorities it can happen to anyone and the direction our law enforcement is going it becoming more likely for all though no doubt black will always have a higher likely hood

        • Christopher Ybarra

          HA!! Not you because you are white? I see the intended sarcasm, however, take a look at the Netflix series Making a Murderer. After that tell me again about your white privilege.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            Making a Murderer is very clear that they killed that girl-just look up the stuff left out-the txts, the stalking, etc

        • Iva Sue McCoy

          Randy Weaver’s wife and son were white. Waco people were white. They didn’t even get the chance to be convicted by a court. There is no law. There is no equality. There is only the BAR MEMBERS WHO HAVE SABOTAGED OUR COUNTRY. THEY ARE TREASONOUS CRIMINALS.

          • Nikki

            On point

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            no, dummy-Weavers and Waco nuts were traitors and deserved to be taken down

          • DarthYan

            david spence and johnny garrett were too.

        • Charles Hill

          so would you tell your other friends what white privilege is?

        • Trimelda McDaniels

          That only works if you’re wealthy as well as Caucasian. Otherwise, you’d be sitting next to the brotha singing Willie Nelson songs.

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        he did it-don’t be fooled by bleeding heart idiots-the evidence is overwhelming!

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        he wasn’t framed-its very clear he killed these people

  • Darlene R

    Poor man can’t get any justice. I guess the cops don’t want to admit their wrong, plus the fact that the real killers are still out there. smh!!! Prayers for this man to find justice!!!

    • Skeetah Smith

      The system will NEVER admit that they were/ are wrong unfortunately. Smh….. The most crooked Bastards on the planet!

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        they got the right guy-the evidence is overwhelming-look it up!!

    • rootbeer08530yahoocom

      Killing a man to dodge a lawsuit, sad too because I bet if the guy had a choice he would not sue just to live. Our judicial system and law enforcement is f***ing ridiculous and sick

      • DarthYan

        if douglas does the right thing it will be a relief. If he orders an investigation I’m pretty sure cooper will be cleared and furrow will finally be made to answer

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      youre an idiot-the evidence is overwhelming-he is the killer-and he must be executed

      • Darlene R

        Who peed in your Post Toasties Norman Dostal?

        • NORMAN DOSTAL

          I don’t like killers-why do you like them? you have a family member in jail for murder?

          • Darlene R

            No never! No one! Have you been to jail? You seem so upset about something that has nothing to do with you personally. Don’t get your bowels in an uproar.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            ive had a family member killed so it does matter to me. I insist we execute killers-it balances the universe. Why are you so NOT upset when children are killed? Maybe you should have your snatch get into a bit of an uproar when kids are killed.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            look up “empathy”

          • Mads

            Look up logic.
            Exactly if you had a family member killed, you should be VERY interested in not seeing more innocent people getting murdered!

          • DarthYan

            Norman has none. He hoped my family was put to death because i had the temerity to suggest Josh got manipulated.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      youre really stupid-shame on you-he killed two kids! and the fact that he raped two women doesn’t bug you, a woman?

  • Adam Vant

    This murderer should have been executed years ago. Justice delayed. I will cheer when he is put down.

    • Cee Hep

      Use your gun now so you can be happy, before you do go get a DNA.

      • jfoster13

        It’s a black man, so it doesn’t matter to Adam Vant whether he’s guilty or innocent. He’s probably an ignorant white racist.

        • Adam Vant

          The guy’s a convicted brutal murderer. Makes no difference to me that he’s black. Read the 1991 California Supreme Court decision. He deserves to die and should have been executed long ago. Hopefully he’ll be executed soon. That will be a happy day for all Californians.

          • Erica

            So I read all that and even the judges agree that he is not guilty of this crime. Plus did you miss the fact about all the evidence destroyed and withheld from the defense? The lone survivor said it wasn’t him. What reason would that little boy have to lie? or make up that one person broke in and killed all of them?? Did YOU read it? (quoted from 5 judges) “Five of the federal judges issued a blistering 103 page dissent. These judges stated, “There is no way to say this politely. The district court failed to provide Cooper a fair hearing. The district court impeded and obstructed Cooper’s attorneys at every turn.”

          • Adam Vant

            “It is utterly unreasonable to suppose that by coincidence, some hypothetical real killer chose this night and this locale to kill; that he entered the Lease house just after defendant left to retrieve the murder weapons, leaving the hatchet sheath in the bedroom defendant used; that he returned to the Lease house to shower; that he drove the Ryen station wagon in the same direction defendant used on his way to Mexico; and that he happened to wear prison issue tennis shoes like those of defendant, happened to have defendant’s blood type, happened to have hair like defendant’s, happened to roll cigarettes with the same distinctive prison issue tobacco, and so forth. Defendant sought to discredit or minimize each of these items of evidence, but the sheer volume and consistency of the evidence is overwhelming.” — California Supreme Court, People v. Cooper (1991) 53 Cal.3d 771. Too bad so sad bye bye Kevin Cooper.

          • Dela Cruise

            “But when Josh Ryen recovered from his injuries, he stated that it was
            three white or Hispanic men that attacked and killed his family and that
            Cooper was not involved.” – straight from the witness that was attacked.

            Or are you going to say that the testimony of the person who got attacked is not reliable?

          • Adam Vant

            Kevin Cooper is a brutal vicious murderer. Hopefully soon he will be put down like a rabid dog.

          • dano2112a

            Just wondering, where were you on that date? You seem to have a lot of anger towards this man for no apparent reason. Like the saying goes, “I think he doth protest to much”.

          • Adam Vant

            On June 5, 1983, I was as always going about my daily business as a law-abiding citizen, unlike the vicious animal Kevin Cooper, who was butchering 4 people to death.

          • maggie m

            SUUURRE you were going about your “daily” business as a “law-abiding” citizen. I am sure that is what TED BUNDY said that too when he was trying to convince himself. That child and most important witness did say 3 white or Hispanic men killed his family. Kevin Cooper is not only black, he is pretty dark-skinned and to boot is a SINGLE PERSON! and . WHERE were you again? and why are you so abnormally adamant that a black man be murdered leaving white multiple murderers, police and prosecutors untouched in your neighborhood. AND WHO raised you again???

          • Adam Vant

            Kevin Cooper is indeed black. He is also a vicious quadruple murderer who hopefully will be put to death by California. That will be a great day for justice! Death to murdering scumbag Kevin Cooper!

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            he didn’t say anything-his throat was cut by Cooper

          • DarthYan

            jillariously the kid was only confused after the officer adopted a deeply flawed squeeze system

          • maggie m

            Like I said before – SUUURRE you were!!!!!

          • zonmoy

            in other words your the real killer and you want him executed so you are home free.

          • queen eliz.

            I could have said the same thing, other wise why is he so dam adamant to see this man die. I think you are on to something Zonmoy, maybe his ass needs to be investigate. No one should die regardless of their color, if they are innocent. Adam Vant u sound like u are the guilty one.

          • Ron

            Idiot do your research. It is obvious you have not read anything. Just a ounk

          • Adam Vant

            I can’t wait for Kevin Cooper to be executed. I will break out champagne when he is killed.

          • Charles Hill

            Yeah you sound like a murderer, You have any witnesses to your whereabouts on that date?

          • queen eliz.

            I would like to know, he knows way too much

          • Ron

            You racist, pathetic, raggedy ass, coward.

          • Adam Vant

            Hopefully death will come soon to Kevin Cooper.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            That is a common misrepresentation of what Josh Ryen said. Josh initially reported that three Mexicans came to the house looking for work earlier in the evening and he thought they might have been the killers. Cooper’s defenders have turned that into “three white men” to fit the fantasies of Diane Roper and two women who reported 19 years later that the killers were in the Canyon Corral Bar on the night of the murders.

            When Josh described the attack, he only described a single attacker, not three.

            It’s also a common misrepresentation that one person could not have committed the murders. Those people seem to have never heard of a blitz attack. That is what happened. Cooper attacked Doug Ryen, incapacitated him, then attacked his wife and incapacitated her. After dispatching them, or very close to it, Jessica entered the room and she was viciously attacked. Chris Hughes and Josh entered the room last and they, too, were attacked.

          • Ron

            The information does not support your argument. The blood was not Cooper’s? Whose blood was it?.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            What evidence are you referring to, Ron? The blood spot on the wall, A-41, was determined by DNA to have come from no one but Kevin Cooper. Blood on the tee-shirt was confirmed by DNA to come from Kevin Cooper and Doug Ryen. Cigarette butts found in the Ryen’s station wagon were linked to Cooper by DNA evidence.

          • Charles Hill

            where did you get this extra information. Or you the second person in the murder you have to much so called evidence.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I got it from the court opinions summarizing the evidence against Cooper both at trial and as a result of post-conviction DNA testing requested by Cooper. It’s not “extra” information since anyone who bothered to read the court opinions would know about it.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            its all online-just google it

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            yes! thank you!!

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            thank you! a person who actually did some research!!

          • Mads

            False!
            The police sent out a warrant which wrote “suspects described as either white or mexican males”.

            Since two different witnesses saw three white men covered in blood on that same night … one of the witnesses saw them in a car, that looked like the car the family owned.
            Does that not seem odd to you, does it not in any way make you think … well, it IS very odd if these incidents are not related.
            The only witness to the actual crime also sees three white men …

            Just use logic, it is no harder than that.

            I would be very uncomfortable with a police force, who were not able to add these incidents up!

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The SBSD issued a “Criminal Bulletin,” which is not a warrant. That bulletin was based on information provided by a traumatized child who had sustained severe head injuries in the attack that killed his family and friend.

            The two witnesses did not give consistent statements. The husband claimed he saw one white male in the vehicle. His wife said she saw three or four white males in the vehicle. Neither of them provided any information, such as a license plate number, that would have proved the car belonged to the Ryens. They did not identify the station wagon by make, model or year. All GM vehicles at that time looked similar to one another in body style, so they could have seen an Oldsmobile, when the Ryen’s vehicle was a Buick.

            What is odd to me is that anyone believes that someone other than Cooper would have entered the Lease house not only to get weapons, but also after the murders. That is not logical.

            There is no question that Cooper hid out in the Lease house after his escape from CIM. There is no question that the weapons used in the murders came from the Lease House. There is no question that evidence from Doug Ryen and Jessica Ryen was found at the Lease house after the murders. Those add up to only one thing – Kevin Cooper committed these murders.

          • Mads

            What needs to be done is just look at the evidence 🙂 … and then use logic.
            People who capable of doing that, without letting their personal opinion interfere … will be able to see that there is very serious doubt as to which Cooper committed the murders.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The information you cited isn’t “evidence.” It’s extraneous information that is uncorroborated by any of the evidence presented at Cooper’s trial, or in his 30 years of post-conviction appeals. Those pieces of information do not trump the DNA findings regarding the blood found in the Ryen home, the evidence found in the Lease house, or the evidence found in the Ryen vehicle, all of which implicate Cooper and only Cooper as the person who murdered the Ryens and Chris Hughes.

            Post-conviction DNA testing has confirmed that no one but Cooper was involved in the murders. Of course, Cooper’s advocates are not going to tell people that the hairs that were tested in 2004 belonged to animals or members of the Ryen Family. They also aren’t going to tell people that the EDTA testing did not support Cooper’s claims that evidence was planted.

            Please take the time to read Judge Huff’s lengthy opinion which summarizes the evidence against Cooper, up to and including the results of post-conviction testing.

            http://lang.dailybulletin.com/projects/pdfs/Huffs_final_cooper_ruling.pdf

          • Mads

            The tiny tiny splatter of blood … in a hallway, far from where the murders took place.
            Is that the one you are talking about?
            The strange placing of the cigarettes, they were not there … and then suddenly they were.

            The sheath that was not there, and then suddenly it was :).

            Is that the evidence you are talking about?
            Very very doubtful … which is also why he did not get executed.

            One man killing 5 people with 3-4 different weapons, in 4 minutes … nobody gets away … oh yes.

            3 different sightings on the night of the murder of people covered in what looked like blood.

            The car found in the opposite direction, of where Cooper checked in 130 miles away from the murder scene … at 4.30 in the morning.

            Coveralls filled with blood … thrown out.

            The only eyewitness saying it was NOT a black man, but 3 white men (which fits the 3 unique sightings later on).

            Cant say for sure … but phew, those are many unlikely events to happen in one night.

            Which is also why he did not get executed …

            I promise to read it … but then please take your time to watch this documentary …
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-O4k1PY-Uw

          • DarthYan

            he checked in at 4 30 at night but he arrived in tijuana in the morning. Hardly leaving time for him to have taken a round trip north and west drop off the station wagon and get new transportation

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Long Beach is SOUTHWEST of Chino Hills, DarthYan. Cooper’s claim that he arrived in the morning is corroborated.

          • DarthYan

            Judge Huff is a blithering idiot. She claimed the blue shirt must have been the tan shirt when laurel epler and the police’s own logs contradict her. She refused to allow Daniel Gregonis to be questioned even though it was proven he was a liar. She refused to allow hairs that weren’t tested to be tested.

            In short, anyone who trusts Judge Huff’s analysis is a bigger fool.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The logs don’t contradict Judge Huff. The call log says “blue shirt.” The only shirt logged into evidence and photographed was a tan shirt. There was never a blue shirt retrieved, which is proven by the evidence logs and photographs.

            Cooper was not entitled to a second bite at the apple:

            “Cooper also submits that the court improperly refused to allow him to examine Daniel Gregonis, the SBSD criminalist responsible for examining and testing several items of evidence including the bloodstained T-shirt, blood drop A-41, and the cigarette butts V-12 and V-17. However, Cooper was given an evidentiary hearing in state court in 2003 to present evidence of his tampering claims, and Gregonis testified and was examined by Cooper’s counsel.   He had an opportunity to develop a record, and the district court was not obliged to provide another one.”

            http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

            The issue regarding testing of the hairs is a prime example of Cooper and his advocates not getting the result they wanted from the first round and trying to take a second bite at the apple:

            “Cooper contends that the court turned its back on its “own expert’s” view that hair testing must be designed to ensure that it is complete and thorough, but the premise is faulty on two accounts.   First, the expert referred to-Dr. Blake-was not the court’s expert, as Cooper characterizes him;  he was Cooper’s expert in state court and has been throughout the federal proceedings, and did not become otherwise solely on account of his appointment by the court for the purpose of assuring adequate compensation.   More importantly, Dr. Blake did not recommend that every hair be examined, as Cooper suggests.   To the contrary, Blake testified that “[t]he only reason to go through this process one more time is simply to be much more rigorous and detailed in the survey, should that be deemed to be a useful thing to do.”   He never opined that it would be useful or reasonable.”

            http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

            Those who rely on propaganda and ignore the evidence and testimony are the fools.

          • DarthYan

            except that it was found in a different location a day earlier. Laurel Epler described it as a blue shirt, and the police own bulletin logs said as much. Kottmeir admitted that the logs turned over to the defense would have had unique page numbers….yet the page numbers were conspicuously absent. Basically Kochis was lying and Huff went along with it.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Please post the logs, then. I have provided you with links to my source of information. You just keep “flapping your gums” and repeating the same dead arguments.

          • DarthYan

            You sound like your just parroting judge huff again and again. Huff’s as reputable as David Duke

          • DarthYan

            I’m not. You’re the one parroting Judge Huff, who was as reputable as David Duke.

          • DarthYan

            What is your source. CJILF?

          • Lisa O’Brien

            My primary sources are the U.S. District Court opinion, the 2007 Ninth Circuit opinion, the 1991 direct appeal opinion and various oppositions to Cooper’s claims filed by the state, including the opposition to his petition for clemency in 2004.

          • DarthYan

            So Laurel Epler is a liar than? Why did the log pages not have page numbers on them (I’ve seen photos) when Kottmeir himself said that all documents turned over to defense had that?

            They aren’t dead. You’re just repeating the judge’s talking points and refusing to consider they may be wrong. If by some miracle new testing is done, and it implicates other men and or proves that the evidence was in fact planted how are you going to react?

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I’m not saying Ms. Epler is lying. However, she only knows half of the story, i.e. that she called in a blue shirt. She has never claimed to have been present when the shirt was picked up by the SBSD, so she doesn’t know whether a blue shirt or a tan shirt was picked up.

            I have not seen the logs. I can only go by the testimony cited in the various court opinions, which is that there is no call log entry regarding a “tan” shirt and that no “blue” shirt was logged in or photographed. The testimony also didn’t mention a search independent of the response to Ms. Epler’s call, which retrieved the “tan” shirt.

            Most of the issues you cite are dead because (a) the courts have found them to lack merit, (b) they have never been presented by Cooper’s counsel to a court. I am repeating the evidence and testimony submitted at the trial and various hearings. In my experience, that is generally the most reliable source of information about a case.

            To date, none of the testing has inculpated anyone other than Kevin Cooper. I am confident that further testing will be no different. To date, Cooper has failed to prove his tampering allegations. I am confident that he cannot do so because there was no tampering.

          • DarthYan

            1.) It shows they believed josh’s statements.
            2.) Witness testimony is most reliable when initially given.
            3.) They were very consistent in seeing a white car bursting away.
            4.) The weapons WEREN’T from the house. The prosecution accurately says a knife and icepick were used. None were reported missing. According to the medical examiner peggy’s hatchet wound had black paint in the marking. The hatchet was inconsistently described in different places.
            5.) The hairs WEREN’T DOUGS OR PEGGYS (they were missing antigen roots, meaning they fell out)

          • Lisa O’Brien

            It also shows that the jury believed Josh’s initial statements and the discrepancies were the result of his head injuries. You continue to ignore Josh’s severe head injuries.

            References to the Leonards and the Ryens’ neighbor statements are actually devoid of any description of the vehicle’s color. Roper’s sister, Killian, said in a declaration that the vehicle she saw was brown, not white. Therefore, the statements are not consistent given that three do not mention color and the fourth says “brown.”

            The testimony at trial proves that the weapons were from the house. The Lease witnesses stated that a knife was missing from the house. The Lease witnesses also unequivocally identified the hatchet as being from the house. Blood on the hatchet belonged to one or more of the victims, which has since been confirmed by DNA testing.

            Your claim regarding “black paint” in Peggy’s wounds appears to be yet another bit of propaganda that you continue to throw out. The claim is refuted by the testimony and evidence at the trial and many evidentiary hearings held in connection with Cooper’s claims.

            The hairs found in the Lease house were consistent with Doug (shower drain) and Jessica (sink drain). They were most likely cut off during Cooper’s attack with the hatchet when he inflicted severe head injures on Doug and Jessica.

          • DarthYan

            Don Guamondy described how every time he asked Josh Josh said three. He only expressed confusion due to the unreliable hand squeeze technique sharpe used. Doctor Hoyle’s notes describe Josh mentioning three attackers. Luis Simo reported that when Josh saw Cooper on tv he said Cooper WASN’T the one who attacked. The police bulletin released on June 6 described three white men. Josh told multiple people that three white men were involved LONG before Roper’s accusations became common knowledge.

            Dr Forbes openly stated when judge Garner asked “Are you saying that the probabilites are he did not perceive a man with bushy hair” “Yes your honor.””

            Also, the medical examiner concluded that Jessica made it outside the house AND that Peggy cradled her as she died. No one knows the order. Also you misdescribe a blitz attack. The prosecution would have you believe cooper effortlessly switched between a knife hatchet and icepick at the same time while dragging Jessica into the house

            So no, lisa is again lying through her teeth.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Once again, you’re using propaganda to make your point. That’s what’s sloppy, DarthYan. None of your allegations are supported by testimony or evidence at the trial, or the multiple hearings held in Cooper’s case. The discrepancies in Josh’s statements have been repeatedly addressed.

            There is no testimony from the medical examiner regarding black paint in Peggy’s wound, that Jessica ever left the house, or that she was cradled by her mother. Those allegations have been invented by someone advocating for Cooper and you’re repeating them.

            The evidence and testimony conclusively establish that the plant burrs found on Jessica’s nightgown were brought into the house by Cooper, as evidenced by the fact that they were also found in the Lease house and the Ryen’s vehicle:

            “Plant burrs were recovered from the Ryen station wagon. The burrs were similar
            to plant burrs found on the inside of Jessica Ryen’s nightgown and numerous plant burrs
            found on the blanket inside the Bilbia closet which was part of the bedding found in the
            closet. (106 RT 7678-81.) The burrs were also similar in appearance to the burrs from
            parts of vegetation samples taken from the area between the Ryen home and the hideout
            house. All of the burrs were macroscopically and microscopically similar. (106 RT
            7677-81, 7687.) An expert for the defense, Dr. John Thornton, concluded the burrs
            were all the same type, known as Medicago. He agreed that the burrs from the blanket
            in the Bilbia closet were “virtually identical” to the two burrs found on the inside of
            Jessica’s nightgown. (105 RT 7521-22, 7541-43.) Dr. Thornton agreed that Jessica’s
            killer had moved her nightgown up on her body after she was already dead in order to
            inflict a series of post-mortem wounds on her chest with an ice-pick or similar
            instrument. (105 RT 7526-28.) The position in which Jessica was found was consistent
            with her killer getting down on his knees to inflict cuts in her chest after she was dead. (105 RT 7529.)”

            https://www.casd.uscourts.gov/Attorneys/FileReview/Lists/Noteworthy%20Filings/Attachments/1/Order%20Denying%20Successive%20Petition%20for%20Write%20of%20Habeas%20Corpus%2004cv656.pdf

            My description of the method used by Cooper, i.e. a “blitz attack,” is consistent with the definition of the term in the context of criminal profiling.

            “the term blitz is defined as the rapid application of overwhelming physical force intended to injure, incapacitate, or gain control of a victim. ”

            Once Cooper attacked the victims and incapacitated them, they would have been unable to defend themselves. This is also consistent with Josh’s statements, wherein he described entering his parents room and being struck in the head.

            Cooper’s ability to switch weapons was the result of the fact that he incapacitated his victims, hindering their ability to defend themselves, or to escape. Given that there’s no testimony or evidence proving that Jessica escaped, there was never a need for Cooper to drag her back into the house.

            Given your penchant for inventing facts and/or repeating those invented by someone else, you are the one being dishonest.

          • DarthYan

            that jessica left was the nocturnal beetle in her body bag and the burrs on her nightgown. THAT’S where I’m getting it from you incredibly stupid woman

          • Lisa O’Brien

            There is no trial testimony about a beetle. That is why I labelled it propaganda. There is trial testimony that proves Cooper brought the burrs into the Ryen house, their car and the Lease house.

          • DarthYan

            the burrs don’t work that way. Also the cigarettes weren’t in the first two reports. Coincidentally some of the cigarettes recovered in the house never made it to evidence. And what about the blood in the BACK seat of the car? Did cooper climb all over it like a monkey

          • DarthYan

            it was mentioned in the dissent by judge fletcher. It didn’t come out of nowhere so it came u at some point. The burrs were the kind that clung very hard. They wouldn’t transfer easily.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            he later said that he was confused and it was only ONE person

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            he couldn’t speak because his throat was cut so he didn’t “state” anything-when he could talk, he said it was one person

          • DarthYan

            he only changed it AFTER he saw cooper on the telly.

          • FredZiffel

            Ummm, can you produce the court record that shows that this was testified to in court? By the way, I would not spend a lot of time on this since such testimony doesn’t exist. You are either convoluting several statements into alleged “testimony” or quoting from some fanatic website that routinely fabricates this type of nonsense.

          • DarthYan

            He told the psychiatrist “Oh I thought it was the three men but then i saw on tv it was cooper.” He referred to bushy hair…..even when Cooper had bushy hair AS HE WAS ARRESTED. At the time of the massacre his hairs were in cornrows. If Cooper had Josh wouldn’t have described bushy hair. Look up Frank Laverty and George Jones. The kid who was beaten had his memory fucked with by the cops

          • DarthYan

            And it is unreasonable to say that the lack of Blood on the bathroom floor the presence of two people’s blood in the vial, the fact that cigarettes and tobacco were not only not there the first two times but were found on the passenger side, the fact that the warden directly disagreed with the state about the shoes doesn’t mean anything.

          • DarthYan

            1.) The house wasn’t where the weapons came from. Diana Roper said Lee was missing a hatchet and the experts said “consistent with”. Not the same thing as “is”.
            2.) The patterns of the luminol were NOT consistent with being used to wash down the house. The prosecution lied.
            3.) The shoes were the OPPOSITE of unique. The prosecution hid a statement proving this. It’s why the judges stayed the execution in 04. The Prosecutors BROKE THE LAW.
            4.) The hair of a BLONDE man was found.
            5.) The cigarettes were found after two searches
            6.) Cigarettes were found on the passenger side
            7.) Same blood type means shit

            In short the defense ACCURATELY discredited the evidence and the “sheer volume and consistency” is underwhelming to nonexistent. The only people who think Cooper did it are either invested in his guilt or just plain stupid

          • Lisa O’Brien

            DarthYan, once again, you’re relying on conclusory allegations that are refuted by the court records:

            1. Witnesses at trial linked the hatchet to the Lease house. The knife used in the murders was never found. The hatchet was linked to the murders based on blood testing, which was corroborated by subsequent DNA testing. The hatchet was never linked to Lee Furrow and Roper was never considered a credible witness by Cooper’s defense team.

            2. The luminol testing was confined to the shower and testimony at trial was that the pattern was consistent with someone washing themselves off after the murders.

            3. Testimony at trial and documents from Stride Rite proved that the ProKeds shoes were available to the prison and were not available in retail outlets. The prosecution didn’t hide Carroll’s statements because Carroll did not make them to the prosecution prior to trial. In fact, Carroll’s statements were deemed not credible by the U.S. District Court because the statements were not based on Carroll’s first hand knowledge and because they were refuted by evidence from Stride Rite documents and witnesses.

            4. That hair from a blond man was found appears to be an outright fabrication. In fact, the hairs were found to belong to members of the Ryen family and Chris Hughes in post-conviction MtDNA testing.

            5. DNA linked those cigarettes to Cooper.

            6. The location of the cigarettes in the vehicle is not dispositive.

            7. Post-conviction DNA testing is not “blood typing.” Cooper’s DNA and Doug Ryen’s DNA were the only DNA found on the tan shirt and Cooper’s DNA was the only DNA found on A-41, the bloodstain near the bedroom of the Ryen home.

            Conclusory allegations made by Cooper’s advocates does not refute the original trial testimony, or the post-conviction DNA testing, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Cooper is guilty. My opinion is based on that evidence, not the self-serving statements of a murderer and his advocates.

          • DarthYan

            That’s not true. Other experts have pointed out there would have been luminal on the floor. There wasn’t a splash pattern consistent with washing

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Would you please provide a link to those reports, DarthYan? Can you name any of these alleged “experts.” You appear to be confusing conclusory allegations with facts and evidence. They are two different things.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            Lisa, don’t bother-his brain is poisoned by bleeding heart nonsense

          • DarthYan

            Also another member of the company (the guy in charge of sales for fourth years) said they were in retail just not in large amountss. Also the blood was found to have edta in it before the prosecution expert withdrew it. What I’m saying is the Dna was planted
            Also the cigarettes were found on the third search. Easily possible to be planted
            Also given that gregonis was guilty of grand larceny and that the police didn’t charge him despite proof its safe to say the prosecutors were dirty enough to plant wvidence or lie.
            Several FBI agents (including the guy who was the head of the la district) confirmed the cops were incompetent at best and corrupt at worst.)
            So no you aren’t basing opinions on evidence. Especially since the splash luminal was not consistent with someone washing off.
            If cooper is guilty the police were corrupt and incompetent. As stands, the police most likely planted the evidence. Furrows hatchet was never tested.
            As stands your opinions are based on the incompetent corrupt self serving cops and police

          • Lisa O’Brien

            You are misrepresenting the testimony of Mr. Luck:

            “The Court heard testimony of Don P. Luck at the evidentiary hearing. Mr. Luck is a former executive with the Stride Rite Corporation with forty-two years of experience selling and managing Pro-Keds and familiar with all sales of the Pro-Keds shoes to major retailers. (6/2/04 HRT 223.) Mr. Luck testified that he knew of all the major sales of Keds during the 1980’s and that he was personally responsible for the Sears, J.C. Penney’s, and military exchange accounts. (6/2/04 HRT 224, 225, 229-32.) He testified that he is positive that there were no sales of the Pro-Keds Dude tennis shoes to Sears or any other large retail companies or chain stores in the western United States. (6/02/04 HRT 225, 231-32, 239-40.) At the hearing, Mr. Luck testified that he has reviewed the trial testimony of Newberry and the records admitted into evidence at trial, and confirms that such testimony and records are consistent with his recollection regarding the sales of Pro-Keds Dude tennis shoes. (6/02/04 HRT 224; Answer, Ex. 66 at 1.) Mr. Luck stated that Mr. Newberry was a thorough person with regards to reviewing and checking files. (6/02/04 HRT 232, 233.)

            [510 F.3d 975]

            “Rather, the Pro-Keds Dude tennis shoe was a “bid” shoe, the low-end shoe of a particular brand, sold to institutions, such as prisons like CIM. (6/2/04 HRT 226-27.) Mr. Luck also stated he knows that the Dude shoe was not available to the public through any major retailer. (6/2/04 HRT 232.)

            “Mr. Luck could not rule out from his own personal knowledge sales to small shoe stores because the Pro-Keds Dude shoe was included in the wholesale shoe catalogue and because such sales would not have crossed his desk or been brought to his attention. (6/2/04 HRT 241.) But as Mr. Luck confirmed in his testimony, Mr. Newberry was the person who reviewed the Stride Rite corporate records and testified at trial based on his search of the records that there were no retail sales of the Pro-Keds Dude tennis shoes. (6/2/04 HRT 230, 233, 242.) Mr. Luck did not comment nor dispute the contents of the corporate records or Mr. Newberry’s testimony because he did not review those records at the time Mr. Newberry prepared to testify in Petitioner’s state court trial. (6/2/04 HRT 230, 233, 242.) So while Mr. Luck cannot rule out sales to small shoe stores from his personal knowledge, nothing in his testimony cast any doubt upon Mr. Newberry’s testimony or the corporation records admitted into evidence at Petitioner’s trial. (6/2/04 HRT 233, 242, 251.) Mr. Luck stated that Stride Rite kept very complete records and there would be records of sales made to smaller retailers. (6/2/04 HRT 232, 242.)”

            You’re also misrepresenting the results of the EDTA testing. The State’s expert’s results were the result of contamination in his lab. That is why they were withdrawn and why they were deemed unreliable by Judge Huff and the 9th Circuit panel.

            Cooper had his own expert, whose results did not support his tampering claim:

            “. . .the court alternatively found that Dr. Ballard’s results disprove Cooper’s theory of tampering because Cooper’s theory requires a high level of EDTA presence in the blood, but the EDTA level in the stain with blood was actually lower than that of most of the control areas. See Order at 933-50 (describing process and making EDTA findings).”

            As for the cigarette butts, Cooper has never proven that they were planted. He presented that allegation at his trial and the jury rejected it.

            You have confused Daniel Gregonis with Deputy William Baird. The state and federal courts have rejected these claims in Cooper’s multiple post-conviction proceedings.

            I think you’re confused. Other “former FBI” agents rendered an opinion regarding cases in North Carolina, which is irrelevant to Cooper’s case. Thomas Parker (the former director of the L.A. FBI field office) and Gregg McCrary have both rendered opinions on behalf of Cooper. Both are now highly paid experts and it is no surprise that they are saying what Cooper and his advocates want to hear. They would not be earning their retainers/fees if they didn’t.

            Paul Ingels, Cooper’s former defense investigator, and Dr. Edward Blake, an expert for Cooper at trial and prior to the post-conviction DNA testing in 2001 had this to say about his guilt:

            “… Doubts led former Pomona cop Paul Ingels to become a private investigator for Cooper’s post-conviction appeals. “I’m a fact-finder,” Ingels told me. “I fought hard to get him DNA testing.

            “Unfortunately, the DNA came back, and it just locked in his guilt,” Ingels noted.

            * * *

            “Dr. Edward T. Blake boasts that he has been involved in “more post-conviction exonerations than anybody in the world,” and he worked for Cooper’s defense.

            “As a professional, Blake doesn’t appreciate others trying to game DNA testing.

            “I asked, “Is Cooper guilty?” “Yeah, he’s guilty,” Blake answered, “as determined by the trial and the failure of a very extensive post-conviction investigation to prove otherwise.””

            Based on your various posts, your opinions are based on nothing more than the conclusory allegations made by Cooper’s advocates, the majority of which are contradicted by evidence and testimony submitted at Cooper’s trial and post-conviction hearings. This is further evidenced by your insistence on continuing to assert a position regarding the luminol testing that has never been asserted or proven in any of Cooper’s post-conviction claims.

            DNA proves that Cooper is guilty. Cooper bears the burden of proving tampering and/or planting of evidence and he has consistently failed to do so.

            There is no evidence that corroborates Roper’s claim regarding a hatchet that allegedly belonged to Lee Furrow. You’re also demonstrating that your opinion are not based on a thorough reading of all of the appellate opinions. Had you read any of those opinions, you would know that Diana Roper was not a reliable witness. That is why the defense did not call her to testify at Cooper’s trial.

            “Diana Roper, now deceased, was abusing drugs and had a motive for disparaging Furrow since he left her the night of the murders, and had begun a sexual relationship with her childhood friend, Debbie Glasgow. (Answer, Ex. 37 (Furrow Decl.).) Significantly, Furrow had an alibi for the night of the murders. He was seen at a concert that night in Glen Helen Park with Debbie Glasgow. It would have been a poor strategy to claim that they traveled from the concert in Glen Helen to Chino Hills, murdered the Ryens and Chris Hughes, and returned home to Mentone. (See Answer, (map); 37 (Furrow Decl.); 39(Darnell Decl.); 41 (Schepling Decl.); 47 (Curry Decl.).) In any event, Roper’s statements about Furrow do not constitute reliable evidence that could support an actual innocence claim. See Schlup, 513 U.S. at 324, 115 S.Ct. 851; Thompson, 523 U.S. at 559, 118 S.Ct. 1489.”

            You would also know about the hatchet:

            “A local citizen discovered the hatchet on June 5, 1983 on the side of English Road, the only paved road leading from the Ryen home out of the immediate area. (89 RT 3519; 90 RT 3791.) The hatchet was covered by bloodstains; its head was covered by dried blood and human hairs. (90 RT 3797.) Some of the hairs were consistent with those of Doug and Josh Ryen. (96 RT 5015-16.) Dr. Irving Root, who performed the autopsies, concluded that the hatchet could have inflicted the chopping wounds [510 F.3d 898] suffered by the victims. (90 RT 3870.) Post-conviction DNA testing confirmed that the blood came from the murder victims. (Supplemental DOJ Physical Evidence Exam Report dated Sept. 24, 2002.)

            “The hatchet had been kept in a sheath by the fireplace in the hideout house. (86 RT 2685, 2715, 2878-79, 3004.) On June 7, two employees of the owner of the hideout house, Richard Sibbitt and Perry Burcham, discovered the sheath to the hatchet lying on the floor near the bedroom where Petitioner slept. The bedroom had been previously occupied by Kathleen Bilbia, who lived in the hideout house in May. (86 RT 2859-60.) Bilbia recalled seeing it by the fireplace when she was cleaning the house. (86 RT 2685.) The sheath was not on the floor when Bilbia vacated the room. (86 RT 2677, 3004-05.)”

          • DarthYan

            1.) Given that the vial was checked out for 24 hours, Gregonis was still possibly corrupt.

            2.) Given the antics of the prosecutors (Tearing down the crime scene, threatening a witness when he confirmed seeing three white men in the bar) it’s not impossible they were willing to plant evidence.

            3.) I looked over the appeals. The state didn’t really give them the chance to prove the allegations. They weren’t allowed to cross examine Josh Ryen in 2005 even though his statements were inconsistent. In short, Cooper DIDN’T have a good chance to make his case. Appeals courts are like that

            Also the “contamination” explanation basically sounds like an excuse. He didn’t explain HOW it was contaminated he just said “sorry it’s contaminated” and withdrew it. That sounds like someone who gave an inconvenient answer. The dissenting judges examined the results and concluded that the results probably were legitimate. Also, you fail to explain why the blood of TWO people were found in the vial.

            The hatchet itself was found outside the house. Someone could have left it there. The sheath could have well been planted.

            Furrow’s whereabouts were unaccounted for after the early evening. The murder occurred around 11-midnight.

            Given how corrupt the police were it’s totally possible they planted evidence. Why would they refuse to indict Baird despite his guilt? Because doing so would have hurt the case.

            Also, given that when blood was tested for the car it was found in the back seat, passenger seat, drivers seat etc. What did cooper climb all over the car?

            As someone else pointed out…..
            When the Ryens’ station wagon was found in Long Beach six days after the murders were discovered, sheriff’s deputies visually inspected the vehicle’s contents and then did a more thorough inventory of the car’s interior when they impounded it and processed it for evidence. Neither of thse detailed reports indicated the presence of cigarette butts or loose tobacco in the car. A later inventory report — handwritten, undated, unsigned — would include both. Considering that Cooper was alleged to have fled alone in the station wagon, the loose tobacco’s location, on the floor between the front passenger seat and the front passenger door, was puzzling, and so were the locations of the two cigarette butts.

            The hand-rolled butt was in the passenger side seat, pressed into the crevice by the vertical and horizontal portions of the seat. The Viceroy butt was under the passenger seat. The location of both the rolled butt and the Viceroy butt suggested someone sitting in the passenger seat had deposited them. The blood evidence in the car also supported the notion that someone had sat in the passenger seat. When Luminol testing of the car was conducted the day after it was found, a positive reaction for blood was detected from the passenger compartment, seat, and floorboard. There was also blood on the lower portion of the driver’s door, the driver’s headrest, and in the back seat area as well. Blood in three separate areas of the station wagon would support the eyewitness testimony of Mr. and Mrs. Leonard, who reported seeing three white men driving rapidly away from the direction of the Ryens’ house around midnight on the night of the assault at the Ryens’ house. It also matched exactly what Josh Ryen told ER personnel that his attackers were three white men.

            The prosecution would contend at trial, based on Luminol testing of the shower in the hidelout house, that in washing up after the murders, Cooper had left traces of the victims’ blood on the shower walls in a broad swatch that went from two feet to approximately five feet above the shower’s floor. Inexplicably, there was no signs of the blood draining on the shower floor itself. A shower would cause the blood on a person splattered with blood to run down his body to the shower’s floor, not aggregate on the shower’s walls in a three-foot band ending some two-feet above the floor.

            The case was never airtight. You fail to realize that the state may well have deliberately blocked avenues that could have proven misconduct. They weren’t allowed to question Gregonis even though by his own admission he basically shit all over lab protocol. You refuse to point out that the blood spot had a history of being consumed and “reappearing”. Even if Cooper is guilty the police most definately were guilty of corruption. You’re trying way too hard to ignore things that disagree.

          • DarthYan

            quite frankly the appeals process doesn’t give a damn of innocence. There have been cases where it was proven someone was innocent and the “extensive post conviction investigation” says they did it. Often times the state repeats things that have been disproven.

            Also, the controls weren’t legit. Except for number 6, which has background edta. That actually SUPPORTS the tampering. You’re being obtuse

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            but he was overwhelmingly guilty per all evidence-youre being tricked because you are inclined to believe everyone is innocent

          • Lisa O’Brien

            You continue to repeat the same conclusory allegations and to ignore why the issue was resolved by a finding of no tampering. An evidentiary hearing was held in 2003:

            “Petitioner attempts to undermine the post-conviction DNA testing results by claiming that Criminalist Dan Gregonis might have contaminated or tampered with the evidence. However, his unsupported assertion ignores the consistent DNA test results which were obtained from the hand-rolled cigarette butt found in the Ryen vehicle after its recovery in Long Beach (DOJ-5, crime lab item V-12) and from blood smears/spatters on the T-shirt (DOJ-6) found near the roadway linking the Ryen home to the nearest freeway. The DNA profiles obtained from these items (DOJ-5 and DOJ-6) match the corresponding portion of the full DNA profile obtained from A-41 — major donor and Petitioner’s DNA profile. [b]All these items were in the custody of the San Diego Superior Court Exhibit Clerk from 1984 until 2001, when they were shipped directly to the DOJ Berkeley DNA Laboratory for analysis. Gregonis has had no contact since the time of trial with either the hand-rolled cigarette butt (DOJ-5, crime lab item V-12) or the portion of the T-shirt on which the blood smears matching Petitioner’s DNA profile were obtained (Trial Ex. 169). Consistent DNA test results confirming Petitioner’s guilt have been obtained from evidence Gregonis had no contact with in 1999, and as to which he has had no contact since the time of Petitioner’s trial.[/b] The items, which have remained in the custody of the San Diego Superior Court Evidence Clerk, operate as an independent control on the DNA results obtained from the items that were in the custody of the Sheriffs Department.

            “Criminalist Gregonis and others testified at the post-conviction evidentiary hearing held before Judge Kennedy of the California Superior Court on June 23, 2003.(92-CV-427, Third Supplemental NOL filed Jan. 23, 2004, Exs. 20, 23, Decl. and Mot. Test, of Dan Gregonis at 97, 99-107, 110-17, 122-23, 128-29, 131-33.) Judge Kennedy found at the conclusion of the hearing that Petitioner “has not made any showing that law enforcement personnel tampered with or contaminated any evidence in this case.” (92-CV-427, NOL filed Jan. 23, 2004, Ex. 6, Judge Kennedy Order dated July 2, 2003 at 10.)”
            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 953.”

            Gregonis could not contaminate evidence that he could not access.

            Again, you’re relying on conclusory allegations to support your belief. None of them has ever been proven in any court. I have yet to see anyone post a direct quote from Kottmeier which supports the allegations that he had the crime scene torn down in order to screw the defense. In fact, the crime scene was torn down before Cooper had been identified as a suspect and long before he was in custody.

            If you’re referring to Lance Stark, the alleged threat did not prevent him from testifying at the evidentiary hearing, so that’s a non-issue. If you’re not referring to Lance Stark, then you need to identify the witness who was allegedly threatened. As for Lance Stark, his testimony was not consistent with the statements and testimony offered by individuals who were interviewed in June, 1983, and who testified at the trial in 1985.

            “Edward Lelko testified he was the bartender at the Canyon Corral Bar on the night of the murders. (6/25/04 HRT 5.) Lelko stated that he saw three men wearing Levi jeans. (6/25/04 HRT 18.) Lelko confirmed that one of the men was wearing a light colored T-shirt. (6/25/04 HRT 84.) The men were not wearing coveralls. (6/25/04 HRT 18.) Lelko did not call the police and did not see a police officer in the bar that night. (6/25/04 HRT 19-21.)

            “Shirley Killian was the manager of the Canyon Corral Bar in June 1983 and recalled the three men at the bar. (6/29/04 HRT 106-09.) She was not working on the night of the murders but was at the bar. (6/29/04 HRT 106.) She did not see any blood on the men’s clothing or their persons. (6/29/04 HRT 111.) One of the men was wearing a light colored T-shirt and blue jeans. (6/29/04 HRT 133, 140-41.) She did not call the police. (6/29/04 HRT 109.) Killian went outside when the three men left and she saw one get into a pickup and another one get into a smaller car. (6/29/04 HRT 108.)

            “Kathleen Royals was a waitress at the bar in June 1983.(6/29/04 HRT 148.) She served the three men drinks. (6/29/04 HRT 153.) She described them as clean-cut men and recalled they wore jeans and one or two of them wore a T-shirt. (6/29/04 HRT 153.) She did not notice any blood on their clothing or their persons. (6/29/04 HRT 153.) She did not call the police, was not aware of anyone calling the police and did not see any officers in the bar that evening. (6/29/04 HRT 154.)

            “Linda Paulk was a patron at the bar and testified that three clean-looking men entered the bar on the night of the murders. They looked like they were military personnel. (6/28/04 HRT 183, 187.) They all wore T-shirts and had short haircuts. (6/28/04 HRT 183.) One wore a white T-shirt. (6/28/04 HRT 184.) Ms. Paulk stated she did not notice blood on any of the three men. She did not see anyone with coveralls. (6/28/04 HRT 187.)

            “Pamela Smith was a patron at the bar on the night of the murders. (6/28/04 HRT 202.) She noticed three men at the bar. (6/28/04 HRT 203-04.) The three men were in their 20’s wearing T-shirt and jeans. (6/28/04 HRT 205.) One man had a T-shirt with a logo making Ms. Smith think he liked heavy metal bands. (6/28/04 HRT 204-05.) Ms. Smith stated that she did not notice any blood or stain on the three men’s clothing. (6/28/04 HRT 209.) She did not see a police officer at the bar. (6/28/04 HRT 209.) After hearing about the murders, Ms. Paulk and Ms. Smith, contacted the Sheriff’s Department regarding the three men at the bar. (6/28/04 HRT 187-88.)

            “Virginia Mansfield is married to Larry Mansfield and the daughter in law of Shirley Killian, the manager of the bar. (6/29/04 HRT 81.) She was a waitress at the Canyon Corral Bar along with Kathleen Royal. (6/29/04 HRT 82.) On June 5, 1983, she reported to the police that one of the men wore a “white short-sleeved cotton shirt (not an undershirt).” (6/29/04 HRT 91.) She did not see anyone with clothing that had blood on it. (6/29/04 HRT 83.) She does not recall seeing a uniformed officer inside the bar that night and she was not aware of any problems in the bar that evening. (6/29/04 HRT 83.)

            “Lester Land was the maintenance man, bouncer and sometimes bartender at the Canyon Corral Bar and was at the bar the night of the murders. (6/29/04 HRT 2-3.) Mr. Land remembered three men but did not remember what they looked like. (6/29/04 HRT 6.) He did not notice anyone with blood on their clothing and did not recall seeing a law enforcement officer inside the bar. (6/29/04 HRT 10.)

            “Land’s interview by Detective Wilson on June 5, 1983 was documented in a police report. (Resp’t Evid. Hearing, Notebook 11, Ex. AAAA.) He stated that there were three white men that arrived around 9:00 p.m. They were in their 20’s. One guy had very short light colored hair and wore a plaid shirt, the second male had short black hair wearing a light colored plaid shirt and the third male had shoulder length dark colored hair. He stated that they left the bar and returned a short-time later pretty intoxicated. (Resp’t Evid. Hearing, Notebook 11, Ex. AAAA.)

            “The credible version of the three men in the Canyon Corral Bar comes from those who were interviewed at the time of the crimes. The two waitresses and bartender who were working the night of the murders, the manager of the bar who stopped by that night, as well as three patrons at the bar that night, were interviewed by authorities close in time to the murders. (6/05/04 HRT 17; 6/28/04 HRT 187, 196, 226; 6/29/04 HRT 3, 6, 89, 126.) Ed Lelko, the bartender was interviewed within three days of the murders. (102 RT 6526-27, 6529.) The bar’s manager, Shirley Killian, was interviewed on June 5, 6, and 8, 1983. (106 RT 7649.)”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d 963.

            The evidentiary hearings held by the state and federal courts were not controlled by the prosecution. They were controlled by a judge, who had discretion to limit testimony and make rulings regarding relevance and admissibility. The appellate courts have found that neither the state or federal trial courts abused their discretion in making those rulings.
            Regarding cross-examination of Josh Ryen, the 9th Circuit found:

            “Cooper also complains that he was not allowed to cross-examine Josh Ryen in connection with Claim Four, which asserts that Josh’s testimony at trial was altered and unreliable. As the district court found, the facts and circumstances surrounding Josh Ryen’s statements and how they were presented to the jury have been known for twenty years. The jury heard two taped statements pursuant to the parties’ stipulation: a videotape of an interview on December 9, 1984 when Cooper’s counsel and the prosecutor questioned Josh under oath, and an audiotape of a December 1, 1983 interview with Dr. Lorna Forbes, Josh’s treating psychiatrist. He did not identify an assailant in either one, but said on the one hand that three Hispanic workers visited the ranch the day of the murders, and on the other that he saw a single man with a “puff of hair standing over his mother. On April 22, 2005, the district court allowed Josh Ryen, along with Christopher Hughes’s parents, to make a statement about their views of the matter as victims. Cooper argues that he should have been allowed an evidentiary hearing because the April 22, 2005 statement (during which Josh Ryen recalled a man with “bushy” hair) was a “third version” that further proves the manipulation, and unreliability, of the trial version. We disagree that the court abused its discretion. Even accepting Cooper’s position that Josh Ryen’s April 22, 2005 statement satisfies the requirements for an evidentiary hearing in § 2254(e)(2) because the latest version could not have been discovered earlier, § 2254(e)(2)(B)nevertheless applies to bar relief as the jury knew that Josh Ryen had given somewhat inconsistent accounts yet convicted Cooper anyway. We cannot conclude that no reasonable juror would have convicted Cooper knowing that Josh Ryen now recalls a man with bushy hair.”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 884

            Regarding Gregonis:

            “Cooper also submits that the court improperly refused to allow him to examine Daniel Gregonis, the SBSD criminalist responsible for examining and testing several items of evidence including the bloodstained T-shirt, blood drop A-41, and the cigarette butts V-12 and V-17. However, Cooper was given an evidentiary hearing in state court in 2003 to present evidence of his tampering claims, and Gregonis testified and was examined by Cooper’s counsel. He had an opportunity to develop a record, and the district court was not obliged to provide another one.”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 882.

            Had you read the opinions, you would know that Dr. Suizdak did provide an adequate explanation regarding the contamination that rendered his results unreliable:

            “Dr. Suizdak also conducted EDTA testing on the ten specimens. Dr. Suizdak was without the benefit of Dr. Ballard’s method for EDTA testing, as Dr. Ballard requested that his EDTA testing methodology be sealed. On October 27, 2004, after he had completed his EDTA testing and submitted his measurements to the Court, Dr. Suizdak retracted his report based on EDTA contamination. (04-CV-656, Doc. No. 322, Ltr. from Dr. Gary Suizdak to Court filed under seal on October 27, 2004). [b]Dr. Suizdak had found significant levels, 313 nanograms, of EDTA in the PBS buffer reagent blank control sample where zero EDTA was the known control. PBS buffer reagent contains no EDTA. If the test had been properly carried out, the PBS buffer reagent blank control sample should have been found to contain zero nanograms of EDTA. According to both Dr. Suizdak and Respondent’s expert Terry D. Lee, Ph.D., the presence of EDTA in the control sample indicates that Dr. Suizdak’s samples were most likely contaminated by EDTA present in his lab prior to his testing. [/b] (Resp’t Analysis of EDTA Test Results filed Oct. 29, 2004, Lee Decl. ¶ 6.) As Dr. Lee explained, “once a sample is contaminated, there is no way to go back and obtain an accurate result.” ( Id.)”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 939.

            As for the 9th Circuit judges who dissented from denial of rehearing, they reached their conclusions by ignoring the rules of appellate procedure and placing themselves in the position of advocates for Cooper. They marshaled the facts in the light most favorable to Cooper. They presented issues that were not new as though they were and ignored the fact that every one of the issues had been resolved against Cooper.

            As for the EDTA evidence, they committed their most egregious error by using results that were not reliable and crafting a resolution that was not supported by Cooper’s expert’s findings:

            “The Supreme Court has made it abundantly clear that this court may not set aside a district court’s factual findings unless those findings are clearly erroneous. Knowles v. Mirzayance, ___ U.S. ___, 129 S.Ct. 1411, 1419, 173 L.Ed.2d 251 (2009); Fed.R.Civ.P. 52(a). The dissent, however, assesses the EDTA evidence from scratch (including evidence that was withdrawn), and substitutes its own findings for those of the district judge—based on charts and graphs and regression analyses that it has crafted. No court, let alone this court on appellate review, may consider evidence that an expert does not stand behind, nor may we reject a district court’s findings of fact—informed by the record before that court—by manipulating data in a way that appears better and brighter to us.

            “In short, there is no reliable evidence of tampering.

            “5. In asserting that “[t]he State of California may be about to execute an innocent man,” the dissent neglects to acknowledge the evidence tying Cooper to the murders, or the fact that, after all the testing that has been done post-conviction, no forensic evidence suggests that anyone else was at the scene of the crime or was the killer.”

            Cooper v. Brown, 565 F.3d at 640.

            Since the hatchet was left outside by Cooper, the sheath is irrelevant. You also continue to ignore the fact that the hatchet was identified by witnesses as having come from the Lease house and was conclusively connected to the murders by DNA of the victims.

            Your allegations regarding Furrow’s whereabouts are also wrong:

            “The stories about Mr. Furrow and coveralls, T-shirts, and hatchet originate with Diana Roper. Diana Roper, now deceased, was abusing drugs and had a motive for disparaging Furrow since he left her the night of the murders, and had begun a sexual relationship with her childhood friend, Debbie Glasgow. (Answer, Ex. 37 (Furrow Decl.).) Significantly, Furrow had an alibi for the night of the murders. He was seen at a concert that night in Glen Helen Park with Debbie Glasgow. It would have been a poor strategy to claim that they traveled from the concert in Glen Helen to Chino Hills, murdered the Ryens and Chris Hughes, and returned home to Mentone. ( SeeAnswer, (map); 37 (Furrow Decl.); 39(Darnell Decl.); 41 (Schepling Decl.); 47 (Curry Decl.).) In any event, Roper’s statements about Furrow do not constitute reliable evidence that could support an actual innocence claim. See Schlup, 513 U.S. at 324, 115 S.Ct. 851 ; Thompson, 523 U.S. at 559, 118 S.Ct. 1489.”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 981.

            Once again, you’re relying on conclusory allegations, which aren’t evidence. Cooper has not only failed to prove overall corruption, but has failed to prove specific allegations related to his case.

            As for Baird, the decision not to indict could have been for multiple reasons, including lack of evidence and/or his drug addiction. The loss of his job and pension may have been seen as sufficient punishment. It may also have been that an indictment against him would have jeopardized every case investigated and tried during the time he was with the Sheriff’s office and, specifically, manager of the crime lab.

            The locations of the blood in the Ryens’ car are not dispositive of Cooper’s innocence. You’ve obviously never considered the reasonable explanations, such as Cooper sitting in the passenger seat when he wasn’t driving to make a claim that he didn’t know the car was stolen plausible, or that he pulled over to sleep in the back seat prior to dumping the car in Long Beach. You’ve also obviously never considered that Cooper could have placed blood stained items in the passenger seat and on the back seat, transferring the victims’ blood from those items to the passenger and back seats.

            The same applies to the location of the cigarette butts. Where they were found is not dispositive of innocence, nor does it corroborate any of Cooper’s claims. Frankly, it doesn’t appear that the allegations regarding the searches were ever raised by Cooper at trial, or in post-conviction claims. Finally, without the actual reports to prove the allegations, we don’t even know if they’re true, or if they’re something invented by someone on the Internet advocating for Cooper.

            The location of the evidence also doesn’t corroborate the Leonards’ statements. Those statements are undermined due to their internal inconsistencies and lack of corroboration that the station wagon they claim to have seen belonged to the Ryens. Mr. Leonard saw one white male driving. Mrs. Leonard saw three or four white males. Neither provided a license plate number that would prove the car belonged to the Ryens.
            You’re relying on the mistaken assumption that a killer, the police, or Internet detectives can predict when, where and how much evidence will be found during an investigation. The luminal results are not undermined by the absence of evidence in a specific location. Your assumption also fails to recognize the fact that Cooper may have cleaned up any visible blood in the bathroom after he cleaned himself up.

            The case was airtight and remains airtight since the post-conviction DNA testing and the failure of Cooper to prove any of his tampering allegations in state and federal court. Coopers attorneys had the chance to question Gregonis at the 2003 hearing and failed to develop a record sufficient to prove tampering. They were not entitled to a second bite at the apple simply because they’d moved on to federal court.

            The burden of proof is on Cooper and the State has very little to do with any of the failures to prove his claims.

            You’re also ignoring the facts about A-41 that were detailed in Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d 870:

            “The totality of the record supports the Court’s conclusion that A-41 is not suitable for further scientific testing. Petitioner’s expert, Dr. Blake and Steven Myers testified that there is no visible blood remaining on the paint chips comprising A-4. Additionally, the blood used for the nuclear DNA testing performed pursuant the Joint DNA Testing Agreement was found as a dried substance at the bottom of the container holding A-41. Petitioner’s expert Dr. Edward Blake testified at the June 3, 2004, evidentiary hearing regarding A-41:

            “Dr. Blake: . . . you open up the A-41 tin, and you look at it, and for all intents and purposes, there’s no blood there. However, when you look at it with a stereo microscope, a little bit different story (sic). There is a very fine powder of blood that remains on the inside of the tin. And that’s what was collected for PCR analysis.

            “( See [04-CV-656, Doc. No. 116 at 7] Petr’s Mem. of P A. in Supp. of the July 12, 2004 Mot. for Reconsideration (quoting excerpts from 6/4/04 HRT).)
            Dr. Blake’s credible testimony is corroborated by Mr. Myers’ testimony at an evidentiary hearing before Judge William H. Kennedy in the California Superior Court on June 24, 2003, regarding A-41 at the time of the 2001 post-conviction nuclear DNA testing. Mr. Myers testified that when he tested A-41 for nuclear DNA he used the remaining paint chip and some of the blood powder inside the tin containing the paint chip:

            “Mr. Bernstein: With A-41A, you described that as the blood powder, plus inside the tin there was a little open tube with a hole at the bottom and a paint chip inside it? Mr. Myers: Correct. Mr. Bernstein: And you combined the chip with the powder?

            “Mr. Myers: Not all of the powder, because that tube with the hole in it actually — and I took a stereomicrograph of this — had some of the powder adhering to the outside of the tube. So I swabbed the inside of the tin and I took the paint chip, combined those into making my DNA extraction sample. But whatever might have been adhering to the outside of that tube when the tube was put back into the tin, it still exists.

            “Mr. Bernstein: So you extracted the chip and the powder together?
            ” Mr. Myers: The chip and the powder that I swabbed from the inside of the tin; but, as I said, there’s some powder that may still be present.

            “( See 04-CV-656, Doc. No. 28, NOL filed February 4, 2004 at 298-99.) The California Supreme Court has also noted that “[o]nly a minute amount of the blood remained after these tests.” Cooper, 53 Cal.3d at 799, 281 Cal.Rptr. 90, 809 P.2d 865 . This “minute amount” of blood has already been subjected to extraction for DNA testing, which may alter the sample such that the original EDTA level could not be accurately measured. (4/2/04 HRT 71-72.).”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 949.

            Again, you are assuming corruption where no evidence exists to prove that assumption.

            You’re actually the one who’s ignoring anything that disagrees with your belief. You claim to have read the various opinions, but it’s obvious from your statements and allegations that you haven’t read them at all.
            That is because the issue of guilt or innocence is determined at a trial, by the trier of fact, which is either the judge, or a jury. The burden is on the appellant, who is legally guilty, to prove allegations regarding the trial, the evidence, or actual innocence.

            Your generalization is too cryptic to even try to address. Please provide some examples where someone is “proven innocent,” but a “post-conviction investigation says they did it.”

            You’re also obviously confused about the culprits who repeat allegations even when they’re been refuted. In post-conviction litigation, The criminals and their advocates are the ones who repeat issues and facts that have been disproven in prior litigation. Cooper’s claims regarding evidence tampering are a prime example. His claims were disproven in 2003, yet he continues to raise them before the federal court, as well as in his petition for clemency. The allegations about the patrons in the Canyon Corral Bar are another example. Testimony at trial disproved the claims made by the witnesses who appeared 20 years later to claim they saw men covered in blood on the night of the Ryen murders.

            DarthYan, you are the one being obtuse, since the testimony above proves that Dr. Suizdak’s control was contaminated. Dr. Suizdak’s results were not reliable due to that contamination and Dr. Ballard’s results refuted contamination because the EDTA found in the evidence sample was 1/10th of what should have been found if the blood had come from a purple topped tube.

          • DarthYan

            the problem is that if cooper washed off in the shower like the prosecution the blood would have pooled all on the bottom. It didn’t instead forming a ring band that ended two feet above the floor. Blood DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

            If Cooper had used all those weapons (what little examination was done implies Doug was awake) than how in gods name could he overpower two physically armed adults who were in good condition and had loaded weapons, WHILE CONTROLLING THREE CHILDREN AND DRAGGING ONE INTO THE HOUSE all while inflicting multiple injuries in four minutes.

            Given that the vial has a history of being consumed and than reappearing, it’s possible that the assertions made about the samples being legitimate are false and tahat Fletcher rightfully said the prosecution used dubious samples for control

            There are way to many odd elements in the case to say the police were good. At BEST they illegally concealed evidence. At worst they planted it to get the desired result

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I’ve addressed your assumptions regarding the shower above.

            It’s believed that Cooper had 2-3 weapons. The hatchet, a knife taken from the Lease house (that he got rid of) and an ice pick (which he could have found in the Ryen house). To put it simply, he overpowered Doug and Peggy by striking each of them in the head while they lay in bed. The head injuries diminished their capacity to defend themselves. While there were guns in the room, there was no evidence that either Doug or Peggy ever had a chance to get to the guns. They were able to move around during the attacks, but their head injuries likely rendered any defense ineffective.

            There is no evidence that Jessica ventured outside during the attacks. The evidence demonstrates that Cooper brought the burrs into the Ryen house and transferred them to Jessica’s nightgown when he lifted it to mutilate her body:

            “…plant burrs found inside Jessica’s nightgown were similar to burrs from vegetation between the Lease house and the Ryen house, and to burrs found on a blanket inside the closet where Cooper slept at the Lease house, and in the Ryen station wagon, which was missing when the bodies were discovered but turned up, abandoned, in Long Beach; …”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 874.

            You are obviously ignoring the fact that the burrs were found in the Lease house and in the Ryens’ vehicle. Jessica was never in the Lease house, or the Ryen vehicle.

            Cooper didn’t have to control the children because they ventured near (Jessica) or into the room (Chris and Josh) one at a time.

            I’ve addressed the provenance of A-41 in the post above. Please read the testimony. As for Judge Fletcher, he obviously ignored a lot of things in crafting his dissent.

            I’ve never believed that the investigation was perfect. If the crime were committed today, the standards would certainly be much more stringent and the failure to adhere to those standards would be cause to question the result of the investigation. These murders occurred in 1983 and the standards for crime scene investigation were not the same as they are today. Cooper presented these complaints at trial and the jury convicted him. He’s presented these claims multiple times in state and federal court and the courts have never ruled in his favor.

            What evidence did they conceal, DarthYan?

            The coveralls were not exculpatory, given that they were provided to police by a known drug addict whose boyfriend had dumped her for her best friend the night of the murders. The statements regarding the substance of the coveralls were not as definitive when Roper initially turned them over and only became “blood” after many years, probably at the behest of Cooper’s investigators. It has been proven in court that the substance on the coveralls was not blood.

            The blue tee-shirt is also not exculpatory, given the fact that it likely never existed. Lauren Eppler called in to report a “blue” shirt on the side of the road on June 6, 1983. Deputy Fields picked up a shirt on June 7, 1983 and logged in a tan shirt. By the time of the evidentiary hearings in federal court, Ms. Eppler’s recollection was less than convincing:

            “At the evidentiary hearing, Ms. Epler testified that she vaguely remembers finding the “blue shirt” when she was driving home. (8/26/04 HRT 133-34.) She testified that she could not recall exactly where the shirt was found and that she could not recall driving and seeing the shirt on the side of the road, although she believes that it must have been close to Peyton and Glenridge because that is where she regularly drove her car. (8/26/04 HRT 133-34.) She also testified that her memory of the shirt was very vague and it was only after referencing the log that mentioned the “blue shirt” and speaking to Petitioner’s defense investigators that she recalled anything about the shirt. (8/26/04 HRT 123-24, 149.)

            “Finally, Ms. Epler testified that she had been influenced by letters shown to her by Petitioner’s attorneys regarding alleged suppression of evidence and law enforcement cover-ups in this case. (8/26/04 HRT 179-80.) She stated that she did not think Petitioner committed the murders after reading the materials sent to her by Petitioner’s attorneys. (8/26/04 HRT 179-80.) Due to Ms. Epler’s previous statements where she did not recall the T-shirt, its color, or the location or time it was found and given the passage of many years and failure of recollection, the Court questions whether Ms. Epler actually recalls a blue shirt. Notwithstanding, the daily logs referencing the call placed to the Sheriff’s Office regarding the shirt were turned over to the defense counsel at trial and therefore are not a proper basis for a habeas claim.”

            Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d at 995.

            Given that Cooper’s attorney had the logs at the time of his trial, the discrepancy between the “blue” shirt and “tan” shirt are ones he could have raised at trial. He chose to use the untested tan shirt to try to cast reasonable doubt.

            Again, Cooper has never proven that any of the evidence against him was planted. In fact, many of the allegations you’ve made were not raised in any of Cooper’s many challenges, which suggest that they are all inventions of an Internet advocate.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            youre an idiot-simple logic tells you that convict staying illegally in house a few yards away, the blood in the house belonging to the victims, the fact that Cooper stole their car, the shoe print FROM THE JAIL-don’t be so bleeding heart stupid!!

          • DarthYan

            1.) The blood in the house wasn’t there the first time
            2.) Cooper was heading in a different direction from where the car was found. He was heading SOUTHEAST.
            3.) the blood was in the passenger seat and BACK seat. What did cooper climb all over the back seat too?
            4.) Don Luck confirmed that the prints weren’t QUITE as unique as people thought
            5.) the car was found near a home belonging to LEE FURROW’S mother figure.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            1) yes it was
            2) how do you know?
            3) ask him-you really think a cop would plant blood incorrectly? thats really nuts
            4) the shoe prints were confirmed to be solely from the prison
            5) so? Lee wasn’t staying 50 yards away form the house.

          • Ben Mullins

            You’re still not answering anyone’s questions towards you. For someone who is trying really hard to heavily rely on ‘evidence’ you tend to beat around the bush a bit

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            I posted an article that puts all supposed questions to rest-its called “CA has wasted enough time on Cooper”-it destroys all theories

          • Ben Mullins

            And it’s not out of the question that those directly involved from the jump, would have or could have conspired to paint this crime scene with his dna. Baird was fired for stealing drugs from the evidence room. It’s not like it’s out of the question that those involved could have been compensated for their willingness to ‘go along’

            I’m not saying that this happened. I am saying that it isn’t out of the question

          • DarthYan

            Moran lied about never being in the room cooper slept in

          • DarthYan

            1.) No. Kathy Bilbia admitted she used bleach which explains luminol. THEN it turned out that oh gee blood pools.
            2.) Because Long Beach was WEST of Chino Hills. Cooper was heading to tijuana.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The use of bleach to clean the bathroom doesn’t negate the fact that hairs from Doug and Jessica Ryen were found in the drains in the bathroom and blood from the victims was found on the rope found in the closet. I also haven’t seen this issue presented through an expert witness in any of Cooper’s many post-conviction claims.
            Long Beach is SOUTHWEST of Chino Hills. Long Beach is also about 47 miles closer to Tijuan than Chino. Both Long Beach and Tijuana are on the Pacific coast, while Chino Hills is inland. Please look at a map, DarthYan.

          • DarthYan

            now you’re being sloppy. The hairs lacked antigen roots, meaning they fell out rather than were deposited. An expert said they were inconclusive. The only rope that matched was in the RANCH, which cooper never entered.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The rope was similar to rope kept in the Lease house, according to the trial testimony. Making your claim that the rope came from the Ryens’ property another example of your reliance on propaganda. Blood on the rope found in the closet of the Lease house belonged to the victims, not Cooper. That links the Lease house to the Ryens’ murders and links the murders to Cooper.

            As for the hairs found in the sink and shower drains at the Lease house, they were compared with methods available in 1983, which are sufficient. The lack of anagen roots doesn’t negate those findings, nor does it negate the circumstantial link between the murders and the Lease house.

          • DarthYan

            there was key differences as well. One of them lacked a center cord.

            The bloody rope was in the DRIVEWAY you cretin

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Rope with blood from members of the Ryen family was found in the closet of the Lease house. Read the court opinions.

          • DarthYan

            I have. They’re horseshit. Rymer was a dumbass and the court is better off without her, and Huff was a complete buffoon who made up her mind and than decided to quash anything that might challenge her preconceived notions

          • DarthYan

            blood pools on the floor. Yet there was no pooling. Also there was blood on the back and passenger seat Also no hairs were found. Tijuana is SOUTHEAST

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Your argument is not a scientifically accurate one, given that Cooper has never presented it in any of his many post-conviction claims. It’s nothing more than propaganda.

            I’ve said before that Cooper may have gotten into the back seat to sleep and sat on the passenger side when he wasn’t driving. He also could have placed bloody items on the passenger and back seats and blood was transferred to the seats from those items.

            Tijuana is not southeast. It is SOUTHWEST. Please look at a map or do a driving directions search.

          • DarthYan

            1.) It does undermine the claim cooper washed himself off.
            2.) First of all the only things that were examined were hair color and consistency. There was no mitochondrial testing. Also, given that not only did Josh’s grandmother once own the house, but Josh himself admitted
            3.) The ropes were actually different; More damningly the only place such a rope was mentioned was in the ranch.
            4.) While it is southwest, it was still a significant detour. It also fails to explain how Cooper got to the border if he ditched the car. Did he just steal another car? if so why was it not reported. Also, given that cooper was a skilled car thief he wouldn’t have needed to even enter the house.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The use of bleach doesn’t undermine the conclusion that Cooper washed himself off. You’re using propaganda that is unsupported. Until Cooper presents this argument to a court and proves it through the testimony of a forensic specialist, it remains your propaganda.

            The limitations to the examinations of the hairs found in the drains is due to the limitations inherent in hair examination in 1983. That there was no subsequent mitochondrial testing is more likely the result of the fact that the defense did not want to confirm that the hairs belonged to Doug and Jessica.

            That the grandmother ever owned the house is yet another example of your propensity for propaganda. That claim has never been raised, let alone proven. Additionally, even if the grandmother owned the house, there’s no evidence that the Ryen family ever lived in the house. Finally, the hairs that were found were not clumped and didn’t appear to have been in the drain for a long period of time.

            The fact that the blood on the ropes belonged to the Ryens and that the rope was found in the Lease house ties the Ryen murders to the Lease house and, therefore, ties Cooper to the murders. There was also testimony that the rope was consistent with other rope kept in the Lease house.

            Long Beach is not a detour from Chino Hills, DarthYan. It is southwest, on the Pacific coast. Tijuana is further south, also on the Pacific coast. It isn’t a detour at all. It’s unlikely that Cooper would have stolen a car to cross the border to Tijuana. That is likely why he dumped the Ryens’ vehicle in Long Beach. The most likely explanation is that he hitchhiked from Long Beach to Tijuana.

          • DarthYan

            Josh himself said they took showers there. Also there were TWO ropes. One was in the driveway, the other was in the lease house. The people in the house even said “one of the ropes had a center cord and the other didn’t.”

          • Lisa O’Brien

            That is just more propaganda. It has never been raised by Cooper.

          • DarthYan

            There’s also the fact that the hairs weren’t mitochondirally tested.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            That is false. The 13 hairs were tested for MtDNA:

            “The court developed a protocol and ordered that ten hairs suitable for testing from Jessica’s hands be tested for mitochondrial DNA and that two hairs (one found on Doug Ryen’s hand and one on Chris Hughes’s arm) identified in 2001 as having anagen roots also be tested.   Dr. DeForest, Cooper’s criminalist, selected the hairs.   Two proved to be animal hairs, and tests on the remaining hairs could not exclude Jessica, Peggy, Josh or their maternal relatives as donors.   Therefore, the results of mitochondrial DNA tests did not indicate that these hairs were pulled out of the head of a third party perpetrator.”

            http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

          • DarthYan

            the hairs tested in 2002 had no antigen roots in them. The hairs Huff had tested were already tested in the past so any results would have been pointless.

            1.) Why did vial VV2 have two sets of blood in it even though the blood in it had been drawn when Cooper was arrested in Santa Barbara?
            2.) Why was the vial itself not tested?
            3.) Why did the supplemental physical evidence examination report dated September 24 2002 and the Physical Evidence Examination Report from July 7 2002 show blood that belonged to neither Cooper or the victims?
            4.) What was the point of Judge Huff attaching a photo of Chris Hughes and the Ryen family to her ruling?
            5.) Detective Michael Hall’s report mentions the cigarettes in the ash tray but NOT the two that Cooper allegedly smoked (V12 and V17). They were only mentioned in a report that was unsigned that covered a search by Officers Stockwell and Ogino
            6.) Why was the button found in the room green when Cooper was wearing a BROWN jacket
            7.) Why did the closet door have Steven Moran’s fingerprints even though he claimed he never set foot in that room? Negus caught Moran on this during the trial.
            8.) What bloody items would Cooper have transported in there? The only thing missing from the house was the car.
            9.) If Cooper washed himself off in the shower, why was there blood in the backseat?
            10.) Why was the car found 2 blocks from where Lee Furrow’s stepmother lived?
            11.) If the Blue shirt didn’t exist why did the criminal bulletin put out mention a blue shirt?
            10.) Why wasn’t David Negus allowed to testify that Kochis had NOT turned over the logs to him? He was willing to give a statement under penalty of perjury.
            11.) Why wasn’t David Negus allowed to testify that Kochis had NOT turned over the logs to him? He was willing to give a statement under penalty of perjury.
            12.) Why wasn’t Laurel Epler allowed to testify when she claimed the blue shirt and tan shirt were different? She was alive and perfectly willing to testify.
            13.) Why did the log with the blue shirt not have page numberings even though Dennis Kottmeir admitted that both the discovery for the defense and prosecution had page numbers on them?
            14.) Why was some of the tobacco taken from the house not processed?
            15.) Why were there no reports of a knife and ice pick missing from the house? Both were used in the assault yet only the hatchet was reported missing.
            16.) Why did the hairs from the lease house have no antigen roots in them?
            17.) Why was the button found in the room green when Cooper was wearing a BROWN jacket
            14.) Why did the closet door have Steven Moran’s fingerprints even though he claimed he never set foot in that room? Negus caught Moran on this during the trial.
            15.) Why did Daniel Gregonis wait until he had a copy of Cooper’s blood to run testing?
            16.) Why was Daniel Gregonis’s name and the date of the day he accessed the envelope on the seal of the envelope if he never opened it.
            17.) Why weren’t more of the hairs tested (less than half were tested in 02 and the ones that WERE tested were examined AGAIN, making it redundant.
            All of the above are pertinent questions
            18.) Why weren’t the defense allowed to cross examine Josh Ryen (Cooper didn’t have bushy hair at the time of the massacre, and Josh would only have seen bushy hair when cooper was taken into custody.) Doctor Forbes herself said she firmly believed the police manipulated Josh into perceiving a single man.

            And just because the appeals court upholds it doesn’t make it true. They upheld the verdicts against Henry McCollum and Leon Brown and found no evidence of misconduct even though it later turned out the cops had concealed knowledge that Roscoe Artis (who was the true murderer) was a viable suspect.

            Another issue with Huff is the robing room website. Various attorney’s are allowed to assess federal judges in the district. A common complaint from all of them is that Huff is biased in favor of a certain side

            http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=180

            You take judges at their word and refuse

          • Lisa O’Brien

            As I have previously pointed out, your allegation about the hairs is false. The hairs tested in 2001/2002 yielded no DNA. They were not subjected to MtDNA testing.

            Cooper requested MtDNA testing on the hairs found in Jessica’s hand. On remand, Judge Huff granted the request and included three hairs found on Doug and Chris’ bodies not included in Cooper’s original request. The results of the MtDNA testing on the hairs excluded third-parties.

          • DarthYan

            huff tested hairs that were already tested.

            Until you explain why the log referring to the blue shirt didn’t have page numbers when both Kochis and Kottmeir conceded that such page numbers would have been on it, why the witness who FOUND the shirt was “unreliable” why there were TWO sets of blood in the vial even though the blood was drawn when Cooper was taken into custody, why there were no antigen roots in the drain hairs, why there were no reports of a knife or ice pick missing from the house (Did cooper summon it out of thin air), why steven morn’s fingerprints were on the closet door even when he said he never entered the room, and why the button was from a green jacket when he wore a BROWN one, why the prints were only found after Baird got his hand on a copy of the pro led shoes…….

            I have to consume your basically blind. You refuse to address that oftentimes judges and cops and prosecutors have ignored the truth. You refuse to acknowledge that san bernadino is corrupt (the sheriff was stealing guns for fucks sake, the head of the crime lab was a druggie, and the lead criminalist was proven to have put an innocent man (William Richards) in jail and openly was caught lying on the stand. It’s not only plausible, but probable that the officers were corrupt. They were under pressure, Cooper was in the area, so they zoomed in and to “help” they put him away

            If new DNA testing is done and it DOES clear Cooper I’m going to be laughing my ass off. You will probably say it was forged.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            1. MtDNA Testing of Hairs

            Once again, DarthYan, you’re misrepresenting the facts, in spite of the fact that I have previously provided you with accurate information.

            Judge Huff ordered MtDNA testing of ten hairs from Jessica’s hands that had not previously been tested. Those are the only hairs that Cooper asked to test at that time. Huff also ordered MtDNA testing on the three hairs previously tested, which had been found on Doug and Chris’ bodies. Peggy, Jessica or Josh could not be eliminated as the source of those hairs. Other hairs were confirmed to be animal hairs. It was only after the hairs failed to exonerate him that Cooper made the request to test all of the hairs.

            2. The Logs

            I can’t explain something I haven’t even seen. Given your penchant for embellishment, I don’t believe that any of the discovery produced by the state lacked page numbers. There was also testimony that if the documents were produced in response to a subpoena, the pages would not have been numbered because they were not part of the State’s discovery to the defense.

            “On August 8, 1983, and January 16, 1984, Petitioner’s defense counsel David Negus filed a subpoena duces tecum for materials that included “the complete daily logs, dispatch records, tape recordings of dispatch or communications made from June 2, 1983 to July 31, 1983, by the Sheriffs or any deputy of the SBSO concerning the investigation and search for suspects in the deaths occurring at [the Ryen home] and the escape and attempt to apprehend David Trautman, aka: Kevin Cooper, from CIM on June 2, 1983.” (I CT 75-76.) Negus’ declaration stated in his request: “The logs, dispatch records, and tape recordings include actions of officers which may not be memorialized in reports. The actions are relevant to the integrity of physical evidence, other suspects to the crime, and the issue of flight.” (I CT 90.)

            “On September 2, 1983, after the state’s compliance, defense trial counsel David Negus stated to the court that the daily logs had been received:

            “I can indicate to the court that with respect to the four items in the amended subpoena [see I CT 75-76], that with respect to Item 1 [complete daily logs, dispatch records, tape recordings of dispatch or communications made from June 2, 1983, to July 31, 1983], all items except the tapes that were requested have been received.

            “(IV RT 6.)

            “Also, John Kochis, one of the prosecuting attorneys at the Petitioner trial, testified
            that the San Bernardino Sheriff’s daily logs from June 4-6, 1983 (Resp’t Evidentiary Hr’g
            Exs. MMMM-PPPP), were subject to a subpoena duces tecum filed by the defense and
            those documents were released to the defense directly by the San Bernardino Sheriff’s
            Department. (8/13/04 HRT 183.) ”

            The above summary explains why some logs had page numbers, indicating they were produced in discovery and others did not have pages numbers. It’s also an example of an instance in which Judge Fletcher ignored evidence in the record to present the facts in the light most favorable to Cooper. Fletcher had an agenda.

            3. Laurel Epler

            I have not said Ms. Epler was unreliable. Ms. Epler was not present when the SBSD responded to her call about the shirt on the side of the road. Therefore, she could not say based on her own first hand knowledge that a “blue” shirt was recovered. With the passage of time, her testimony about the shirt was equivocal at the U.S. District Court hearing:

            “Ms. Epler was contacted on August 3, 2004 about the shirt. In the recorded statement, Ms. Epler stated that she does not remember calling law enforcement regarding the shirt, she does not recall the color of the shirt, and she does not remember where the shirt was found. (04-CV-656, NOL filed August 18, 2004, Doc. No. 187 at 5, 12-13, and 20.) Ms. Epler testified before this Court that her statements at that interview were true and correct and were to the best of her best recollection. (8/26/04 HRT 124.)

            “At the evidentiary hearing, Ms. Epler testified that she vaguely remembers finding the “blue shirt” when she was driving home. (8/26/04 HRT 133-34.) She testified that she could not recall exactly where the shirt was found and that she could not recall driving and seeing the shirt on the side of the road, although she believes that it must have been close to Peyton and Glenridge because that is where she regularly drove her car. (8/26/04 HRT 133-34.) She also testified that her memory of the shirt was very vague and it was only after referencing the log that mentioned the “blue shirt” and speaking to Petitioner’s defense investigators that she recalled anything about the shirt. (8/26/04 HRT 123-24, 149.)”

            4. VV-2

            I can’t explain VV-2 without corroboration, such as a declaration or affidavit from Dr. Melton, stating under oath that she found 2 DNA-types in that vial. Dr. Melton’s report would also corroborate Cooper’s claims. None of that has been made available. Until the claim is proven, I can only consider it another myth invented to bolster Cooper’s claims of innocence.

            5. Jessica and Doug’s Hair in the Lease House Drain

            There is no need to explain the lack of anagen roots on the drain hairs.

            “Investigators recovered hair samples from the sink and debris from the shower drain. (87 RT 3084.) Some hair in the bathroom sink trap was matted and appeared to have been there a long time. (96 RT 5017.) Other hair was not matted and a microscopic examination of that hair revealed characteristics similar to Jessica’s head hair. (96 RT 5017-18.) A hair removed from the bathroom shower had characteristics similar to Doug Ryen’s head hair. (96 RT 5017.)”

            You have claimed that Dr. Mary Howell owned the Lease house at one time. According to the property records, Dr. Howell sold the house in 1981, two years before the murders. That makes it unlikely that any of the Ryens, specifically Doug and Jessica, could have showered in that house during the six months prior to the murders. The hairs were not matted in the drain and did not appear to have been there for any length of time.

            6. Knives and Ice Pick

            Your statement is false:

            “Buck knifes, an eleven-inch hunting knife, and ice picks were missing from the hideout house. (86 RT 2860; 87 RT 3002-04.) The hunting knife could have inflicted the remaining injuries. (91 RT 3957.) A strap fitting one of the missing buck knives was found on the floor by the Bilbia bedroom closet where Petitioner slept. (87 RT 3073.)”

            7. Moran

            Questions about the sheath do not diminish the evidentiary value of the hatchet, which was found outside of the Lease house. The hatchet was unequivocally identified by witnesses at trial and subsequent DNA evidence found blood belonging to the Ryen/Hughes victims on the hatchet.

            8. The Jacket

            That Cooper had a brown jacket is a myth.

            “3:10 p.m., June 2 A CIM lieutenant driving to work sees a black man with braided hair and wearing inmate-like blue jeans and khaki-green jacket running along road at Edison and Ramona streets, a mile or two west of CIM. ”

            9. Shoe prints

            Baird did not “find” all three of the shoe prints. One was found in the Lease house, a second print was found on the spa cover outside the Ryen master bedroom. The third one is the only one that wasn’t immediately discovered. The shoe prints were all consistent with one another, which means they could have been made by the same person, wearing the same shoe.

            I am not blind. I have read volumes and volumes of material about this case over the past 12 years, since Cooper’s initial clemency request was denied. As demonstrated by my posts, I can provide more than just my opinion to support my belief that Cooper is guilty.

            The prison are full of people who claim they are innocent, in spite of the evidence that proves their guilt. In my opinion, Cooper is no different that Roger Keith Coleman, who claimed he was innocent in spite of the evidence against him. Post-execution DNA evidence confirmed Coleman’s guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt.

            My analysis is solely based on the facts and evidence of the Cooper case. I don’t care what other states, state courts, federal courts, or other jurisdictions have done in the past. Those cases aren’t relevant to Cooper’s case.

            Cooper has never proven that Tidwell’s past actions, or Baird’s had any bearing on his case, or the evidence against him. Their transgressions certainly don’t prove that the other investigators and experts involved in the case were corrupt.

            You are misrepresenting the William Richards case. Richards’ conviction wasn’t vacated because of Gregonis. It was vacated because of false testimony regarding bite marks given by a forensic odontologist, Dr. Norman Sperber:

            “As a result, petitioner has shown that Dr. Sperber’s trial testimony constituted false evidence because that opinion has “been undermined by later scientific research or technological advances.” (§ 1473, subd. (e)(1).) The legislative history of the 2014 amendment of section 1473 bolsters our interpretation of that section. (Briggs v. Eden Council for Hope & Opportunity (1999) 19 Cal.4th 1106, 1120.)”

            In re Richards, S223651 (Ca. May 26, 2016)

            Cooper has the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that evidence was planted and that the Sheriff’s office was corrupt. He hasn’t done that.

            There are too many pieces of the puzzle that fit for me to believe that Cooper is anything but guilty. I do not believe that it’s a coincidence that parents and three children would be murdered by anyone other than a man who is a serial escapee from various correctional and mental facilities, who hides out within 125 yards of the Ryen’s house.

            The only real coincidence is the three men in the Canyon Corral bar on the night of the murders.

            There will be no more DNA testing. Cooper’s last request was denied in 2011 and he failed to appeal that denial to the California Supreme Court. His attempt to invoke the jurisdiction of the federal courts was shut down and his conviction is final.

            I have no doubt that the results of additional DNA testing would be inconclusive, such as identifying additional hairs belonging to the victims, or it would be further inculpatory as to Cooper and he would launch a new round of meritless tampering claims.

          • DarthYan

            less than half the stairs were tested

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Cooper was granted testing on the hairs he requested, as well as three additional hairs found on Doug and Chris’ bodies. He only asked for additional testing when he didn’t get the results he wanted from the first round.

          • DarthYan

            A fair request though.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            A criminal defendant is not permitted to seek additional testing when the results of testing sought and granted doesn’t exculpate him. That is what Cooper is trying to do.

            He requested testing of the hairs in Jessica’s hands. On remand, Judge Huff granted that testing request, as well as testing of three additional hairs found on Doug and Chris’ bodies. The results of the MtDNA testing of those hairs was not exculpatory.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The purpose of DNA testing is not testing for the sake of testing. If the first results are conclusive and not exculpatory, further DNA testing is not warranted. In this particular case, the MtDNA testing of the hairs was conclusive and not exculpatory, i.e. foreign DNA was not found.

          • DarthYan

            I was talking about most of the other hairs. Also, no the “heavily splattered” isn’t propaganda. ER 1578 mentions the line “heavily splattered” to describe lee’s pants. If Eckley said it was a few red dots later that means he changed his story. Roper was pretty consistent in some regards (her declaration she gave Lee the tan shirt to wear to the music festival). Eckley claimed he destroyed the coveralls on his own. HIs superior EVEN SIGNING the report means he was lying.

            More damningly is the fact that many of the crime labs employed by the prosecution have their wages paid by the prosecution. The book Tainting Evidence Inside the scandal at the FBI crime lab describes how many such labs really AREN’T that impartial. Deputy Stockwell was a sheriff’s deputy at the same time he was a criminalist (itself meaning he had no training.) If you really don’t see the conflict of interest there than wow. Also, the Houston Crime Lab was shut down for routinely falsifying evidence. What’s stop San Bernadino’s lab from doing the same? Or the fact that Gregonis DID in fact claim he disposed of the chips.

            My issues with Siuzdak are that a.) he waited a few weeks to withdraw his results b.) that he refused to submit his raw data (Which would have allowed him to buttress his arguments) and c.) His actions were “take my word for it that sample was TOTALLY contaminated. Experts have lied in the past.

            Fletcher went into other problems with Marilyn Huff’s antics

            First, the district court refused to allow any of Cooper’s experts to assist in choosing the portions of the t-shirt to be tested. Indeed, the court refused to allow Cooper’s experts even to see the t-shirt.

            Second, the district court refused to allow any testing of the samples chosen in order to determine whether the stains on the samples were actually blood stains.

            Third, the district court refused to permit discovery into why blood from vial VV-2-the blood taken from Cooper two days after his arrest-contained the DNA of two different people. One obvious explanation is that someone removed some of Cooper’s blood from the vial and then added someone else’s blood to conceal the fact that he or she had removed Cooper’s blood.

            Fourth, when the state-designated laboratory came back with a result of an extremely high level of EDTA in the sample supposed to contain Cooper’s blood, thereby indicating that the blood had been planted, the lab director withdrew his results because of unspecified “contamination” in his lab. The district court refused to permit Cooper’s attorneys to see the lab’s raw data or notes, thereby preventing an inquiry into whether, in fact, there had been contamination, and into the significance of such contamination.

            Fifth, the district court erroneously concluded that several samples from the t-shirt were proper “controls” when, in fact, they were not. These samples contained both human DNA and EDTA, which indicated that they likely contained blood that had been planted on the t-shirt. Because the district court erroneously concluded that these samples were proper controls, it erroneously disregarded the test results obtained by the two laboratories.

            Sixth, when the district court concluded that the results of the EDTA testing were inconclusive, it refused to permit more testing, even though such testing was feasible. (emphases added).

            Long story short, she cockblocked Cooper at every turn.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The most significant hairs were the ones found in Jessica’s hands and on Doug and Chris’ bodies. As a matter of fact, those are the only hairs that Cooper asked to test:

            “In his brief to us, Cooper states, “Through readily available mitochondrial testing of blond hairs found in one of the victim’s hands, and testing for the presence of the preservative agent EDTA on a T-shirt[?] the State belatedly claimed contained Mr. Cooper’s blood, the question of Mr. Cooper’s innocence can be answered once and for all.””

            http://www.freelawreporter.org/flr3d/f3d/358/358.F3d.1117.04-70578_1.html

            Based on the above, it is apparent that Judge Huff actually gave Cooper more than he asked for, since the hairs from Doug and Chris’ bodies were also tested.

            “The court developed a protocol and ordered that ten hairs suitable for testing from Jessica’s hands be tested for mitochondrial DNA and that two hairs (one found on Doug Ryen’s hand and one on Chris Hughes’s arm) identified in 2001 as having anagen roots also be tested. Dr. DeForest, Cooper’s criminalist, selected the hairs. Two proved to be animal hairs, and tests on the remaining hairs could not exclude Jessica, Peggy, Josh or their maternal relatives as donors. Therefore, the results of mitochondrial DNA tests did not indicate that these hairs were pulled out of the head of a third party perpetrator.”

            * * *

            “Neither was the mitochondrial DNA testing deficient as Cooper argues. By way of background, Cooper’s forensic expert (Dr. Blake) and Department of Justice criminalist Steven Myers spent six days in 2001 jointly conducting visual and microscopic examination of approximately 1000 hairs recovered from the victims’ bodies in order to identify hairs that had properties of hair pulled from the skin. Only hairs with anagen roots can be used to identify an assailant because only they, as contrasted with a cut or broken hair, can indicate that the victim may have pulled the perpetrator’s hair in a struggle. Three hairs meeting the experts’ criteria were identified, but nuclear DNA testing of these hairs yielded no human DNA. Responsive to the en banc ruling, the district court allowed Cooper’s criminalist to select up to 10 hairs from those removed from Jessica’s hands for mitochondrial DNA testing. No anagen hairs were identified and the 10 hairs selected were tested along with the two remaining hairs subjected to nuclear DNA testing in 2001. The results show that Jessica, Peggy, and Josh Ryen could not be excluded as the source of the hairs in Jessica’s hands.

            “Cooper contends that the court turned its back on its “own expert’s” view that hair testing must be designed to ensure that it is complete and thorough, but the premise is faulty on two accounts. First, the expert referred to — Dr. Blake — was not the court’s expert, as Cooper characterizes him; he was Cooper’s expert in state court and has been throughout the federal proceedings, and did not become otherwise solely on account of his appointment by the court for the purpose of assuring adequate compensation. More importantly, Dr. Blake did not recommend that every hair be examined, as Cooper suggests. To the contrary, Blake testified that “[t]he only reason to go through this process one more time is simply to be much more rigorous and detailed in the survey, should that be deemed to be a useful thing to do.” He never opined that it would be useful or reasonable.”

            http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

            When the results didn’t inculpate third-parties, Cooper’s counsel requested additional testing. Such additional testing was not warranted:

            “Cooper contends that the court turned its back on its “own expert’s” view that hair testing must be designed to ensure that it is complete and thorough, but the premise is faulty on two accounts. First, the expert referred to — Dr. Blake — was not the court’s expert, as Cooper characterizes him; he was Cooper’s expert in state court and has been throughout the federal proceedings, and did not become otherwise solely on account of his appointment by the court for the purpose of assuring adequate compensation. More importantly, Dr. Blake did not recommend that every hair be examined, as Cooper suggests. To the contrary, Blake testified that “[t]he only reason to go through this process one more time is simply to be much more rigorous and detailed in the survey, should that be deemed to be a useful thing to do.” He never opined that it would be useful or reasonable.”

            http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

            The quote you’re referring to was contained in Diana Roper’s declaration. That was her perception of the coveralls. Her claim is refuted by Deputy Eckley, who has never described the pants as heavily spattered.

            You can ignore the testimony at the hearings, but the fact remains that Eckley did not consult anyone prior to destroying the coveralls and the initials on the report are solely an indication that the supervisor reviewed the report after it was written by Eckley.

            You are applying modern standards, protocols and practices that didn’t exist in 1983. What happened at the FBI, or in Houston has no bearing on this case. Additionally, Cooper has repeatedly presented these allegations at trial and during post-conviction litigation and both state and federal courts have deemed them to be without merit.

            I have asked that you provide me a citation to testimony where Gregonis said he got rid of the chips. You refuse to do so. That makes your claim that he did propaganda.

            Regarding Siuzdak, his results/report were submitted on October 4 and withdrawn on October 27. That’s not an unreasonable delay. The reason the results/report were withdrawn was due to the control blank, which was supposed to contain 0 nanograms of EDTA, was found by Dr. Siuzdak to contain 313 nanograms of EDTA. Additionally, it was the judge who denied Cooper’s request for the raw data.

            “Finally, the court acted within its discretion in denying access to Dr. Siuzdak’s data. His EDTA test results did not reflect the expected results from the PBS buffer reagent blank control and so were unreliable. Contamination was not remarkable, as laboratories use EDTA in testing. As Suizdak’s results were unreliable, they could not be used to prove Cooper’s tampering claim. “

            http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

            As I have repeatedly pointed out, the result of 313 nanograms in a control that was supposed to contain 0 nanograms is evidence in and of itself of contamination.

            Fletcher went into other problems with Marilyn Huff’s antics

            Judge Fletcher had an agenda. The panel who reviewed Judge Huff’s decision found she acted within her discretion and that the denial of relief on the merits was well-founded. In fact, all of Judge Fletcher’s complaints were addressed in the panel opinion:

            “Regardless, Cooper fails to explain why additional inspection of the T-shirt was necessary, for an appropriate stain and controls were selected after 6G, the stain that was initially selected, proved unavailable because it had already been consumed. Dr. DeForest did not participate in this selection because he had removed himself, but Cellmark — a laboratory that Cooper agreed was highly qualified — replaced him to conduct the extraction. No basis appears in the record to question selection of the stain that was used, and Cooper points to none on appeal. Dr. Maddox of Cellmark and the state’s expert, Steven Myers, selected an area between two stains designated “6J” and “6K,” each of which had earlier been found to be blood containing primarily Cooper’s DNA.

            “Nor does any reason appear why Dr. Suizdak’s representations should not have been accepted at face value; the testing he was to undertake was double-blind, he is a well respected scientist, and he had no interest in the outcome.

            “Cooper never asked for presumptive blood testing before the protocol was implemented, which is sufficient reason to reject his argument on appeal; in any event, as DNA analysis on the tested area later confirmed that Cooper could not be excluded as a contributor of the DNA extracted from the cut-out, there is no point to his complaining now about the lack of presumptive testing. Likewise, Cooper articulated no concern before the test results were in about the possibility that EDTA could have migrated from the selected stain. Regardless, if his post-hoc migration theory were correct, it would be theoretically impossible to achieve meaningful results from further testing as there is no way to determine whether the background EDTA levels throughout the shirt are higher than normal for there is no “normal” base level of EDTA.

            “Finally, Cooper’s suggestion that testing for other anti-clotting agents such as citric acid should have been allowed is misplaced as the only occasion where his blood was preserved in a tube containing citric acid was when it was drawn by the San Quentin Prison, not by the SBSD, and the only blood sample of Cooper’s to which the SBSD had access was drawn into a tube containing EDTA as a preservative. Further testing on the T-shirt was, therefore, not required.

            * * *

            “Cooper’s argument that his blood sample was contaminated is beside the point. The hairs were never examined to see if they came from Cooper, and there has never been any evidence or suggestion to that effect. Rather, Cooper’s theory was that the hairs came from a third party, that is, from the real killer, and if this could be shown, then the presence of a third party at the scene would prove his innocence. That is why the en banc court ordered mitochondrial testing. See 358 F.3d at 1124 (noting that mitochondrial testing of the blond or light brown hair in Jessica Ryen’s hand, if favorable to Cooper, could positively identify Lee Furrow or perhaps others as the killer or killers). Thus, even if Cooper’s sample were contaminated, it is irrelevant.”

            http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

          • DarthYan

            that the superior signed it means he was a liar. Deforest removed himself because the testing protocol was nonexistent. and no the declaration involved beckley’s opinion on the matter.

            Blake himself said some hairs were never tested

          • Lisa O’Brien

            You’re missing the point of the testimony, which was accepted by the U.S. District Court and the Ninth Circuit. That the superior signed the report was never meant to signify that he was consulted prior to destruction of the coveralls, or that he agreed with that action. His initials on the report were only on the report to document that he reviewed it after it was prepared by Eckley.

            When Deforest removed himself, Cooper appointed someone from Cellmark to take his place. What is your point?

            Roper’s declaration cannot be about Eckley’s opinion regarding the coveralls. That would be improper. A declaration, or an affidavit, can only be based on the declarant/affidant’s personal knowledge.

            ” Lee was wearing long sleeve coveralls which had a zipper in the front. The coveralls were splattered with blood and there was horse hair and dried horse sweat on the lower leg area.”

            The language of the declaration quoted above does not indicate that she is repeating a statement made to her by Eckley, which would be inadmissible hearsay.

            Cooper didn’t ask to test all of the hairs. He asked to test the hairs found in Jessica’s hands. That request was granted on remand and three additional hairs were tested. Cooper only requested additional testing of hairs when the results of the tests he requested and received were not exculpatory.

          • DarthYan

            more specifically there were truckloads of problems

            Judge Fletcher dud not have an agenda. Rymer was inclined to agree with Huff because she had ruled Cooper guilty in 01. She wouldn’t want to reexamine it.

            And I read Fletchers reuttal to rhyme. Rymer was as big an idiot as Judge Huff. Both of them were disgraces to the legal profession. She outright lied in quite a few areas. Fletcher devoted a whole ten or so pages dissecting her. So no. Rymer was an idiot and the bench is better with her gone.

            All we have are siuzdak’s word that the “control blank, which was supposed to contain 0 nanograms of EDTA, was found by Dr. Siuzdak to contain 313 nanograms of EDT”. He waited weeks to report it, and just said “Trust me it was TOTALLY contaminated.” Experts have lied in the past, and oftentimes the court has gone out of it’s way to ignore blatant lies.

            Requesting Data to verify the claims (considering that vial VV2 had been contaminated with someone elses blood even though it contained blood drawn when cooper was arrested.) was legitimate. That Huff shot it down doesn’t mean she was right.

            The Texas appeals court refused to acknowledge that Truman simons fed witnesses and snitches info in the david spence case even though the witnesses and snitches never met each other and were interviewed by different people yet gave the same story. There are COUNTLESS incidents when courts have ignored blatant misconduct and lies because they care about finality rather than the truth. I brought up Houstan because the court was FORGING EVIDENCE DELIBERATELY. That’s why it was an issue.

            Why was Vial VV2 with TWO sets of blood in it even though the blood was drawn when Cooper was arrested? There was no reason for it.

            I did some checking. The thing about the paint chip is that when the vial of A41 was looked at they found that there was coopers dna, but also of a unknown person. It didn’t match the victims or any combo. Gregonis lied about breaking the seal.

            You’re basically a cop and judge apologist. You refuse to believe that judges can be dirty or biased.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I refuse to believe that judges and cops are biased without any evidence to support that allegation.

            Cooper is a violent felon, who has lied repeatedly and egregiously over the years:

            “The evidence at trial also established that Cooper was a consummate liar.
            Cooper lied about his identity when he was arrested, charged and sentenced to state
            prison under the assumed name of David Trautman for two counts of residential
            burglary in Los Angeles County. He was also questioned about the use of this alias
            under penalty of perjury, and his deception as to his true identity in the Los Angeles
            County Courts. (P. Ex. No 1 Cooper at pp. 793, 822.)

            “As reflected in Cooper’s Los Angeles County Probation Report, (Case No. A-
            386448, P. Ex. No. 44), Cooper did more than lie about his name as he went through
            the court system in Los Angeles County. Cooper also lied about his entire identity and
            much of his background. Cooper lied about his family history and who raised him and
            his prior criminal record. He has expressed no remorse for his conduct in the
            burglaries. The Los Angeles County Probation Report is a perfect example of how
            Cooper lies to paint an inaccurate picture of himself to avoid responsibility for his
            criminal conduct. (See P. Ex. o. 44, pp. 1-10.)

            “Cooper also lied about his identity to Owen and Angelica Handy when he met
            them in Ensenada Mexico. He claimed to be Angel Jackson when he asked them for
            work. (P. Ex. No. 1 Cooper at p. 800.)

            “Cooper used aliases and lied about his identity to avoid responsibility for his
            criminal conduct that resulted in his confinement in Pennsylvania and California. It is
            hardly surprising that he continues to lie about his responsibility in the Ryen/Hughes
            murders.

            “Cooper’s continued denial of his commission of these murders also
            demonstrates a complete lack of remorse. He continues to victimize the Ryen and
            Hughes families, including sole survivor Josh Ryen with his false claims of innocence.
            As reflected in the letters of support submitted on Cooper’s behalf he has never really
            taken responsibility for his own actions, which is hardly the picture of someone who
            should be rewarded with clemency, especially with the pain and suffering he has
            caused. His continued denial of his responsibility for these brutal murders, which he
            unquestionably committed, only evidences the inappropriateness of a grant of
            clemency. ”

            Given Cooper’s history of lying, my belief that he’s lying about his innocence is far more solid than your allegations against every judge who has ruled against Cooper and the witnesses, experts and Sheriff’s department personnel, who have testified under oath and been found to be credible by the state and federal courts.

            “The dissent improperly marshals the facts in the light most favorable to Kevin Cooper, yet the evidence was resolved against Cooper at trial — after he took the stand and testified — and at each step of post-conviction proceedings. The dissent also approaches the issues as if they were new, yet the same issues have been on the table since day one (except for DNA testing which didn’t exist at the time and which has turned out to be inculpatory). This includes Josh
            Ryen’s statements; handling the drop of blood A-41; the presence of three strangers at the Canyon Corral Bar; that three white men were seen driving on the road leading away from
            the Ryen house; Cooper’s tennis shoes and whether they were Pro-Keds Dudes or left the impressions made at the Lease house as well as at and near the Ryen house; the bloody coveralls that were linked to Lee Furrow and were destroyed by law enforcement; where in the Lease house the hatchet sheath was found; whose blood was on a tan T-shirt found along the
            road; cigarette butts in the Ryen station wagon that were linked to Cooper; if there were a blue shirt and what happened to it; and police incompetence, mishandling of evidence, and
            chain of custody problems. All were known at the time of trial and have been litigated in one forum or another, unfavorably to Cooper, for the last 24 years.”

            The Ninth Circuit found no abuse of Judge Huff’s discretion regarding the denial of additional testing.

            I can’t answer or comment on VV-2 because there’s not enough information. The defense claims Melton found two DNA-types in the vial, but it does not appear that they properly raised the issue before the district court. There are certainly no declarations or affidavits available from Dr. Melton corroborating the allegations. There’s also been no testimony on the record regarding Dr. Melton’s findings.

            The Ninth Circuit found that the blood in VV-2 wasn’t used for any material purpose and further found that Judge Huff did not abuse her discretion when she denied testing. There was also some statements on the record that the contents of VV-2 were consumed by Dr. Melton, so further testing would have been futile.

            Immediately upon receiving Dr. Melton’s report, Hile should have filed a memorandum, including an affidavit from Dr. Melton and should have properly placed the issue before Judge Huff. It appears that he chose, instead, to raise the issue during arguments in an attempt to re-open proceedings, perhaps because the MtDNA and EDTA testing had not gone his way.

            I don’t think a little over three weeks is an unreasonable delay for Dr. Siuzdak to withdraw his findings based on contamination. Again, we don’t have any information about that three week period. It may be that he filed the results and while performing his analysis of those results discovered the contamination. Again, the result in and of itself proves contamination, since the control was supposed to have 0 nanograms of EDTA. The Ninth Circuit found that Judge Huff did not abuse her discretion when she denied Cooper’s request for the raw data.

            What happened in Texas, or North Carolina, or any other jurisdiction is irrelevant to Cooper’s claims.

            Please post links to the sources of your information regarding the paint chip. It appears that now you’re changing your story. Your initial claim was that Gregonis disposed of the paint chips.

          • DarthYan

            the hairs in the lease sink ALSO lacked antigen roots. Meaning that they fell out. And thus weren’t chopped out. Also, I notice you refuse to discuss vial VV2, or that Dan lied about opening the envelope.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Cooper has not presented any evidence that the original microscopic examination of the hairs that found them to be similar to Jessica and Doug was wrong. He did not seek MtDNA testing of those hairs. Of course, he wouldn’t seek MtDNA testing on those hairs because if Jessica and Doug could not be eliminated as donors of those hairs, it would be inculpatory.

          • DarthYan

            Still didn’t discuss VV2. Coward

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I can’t discuss VV-2 because there is not enough information about it. Dr. Melton did not submit an affidavit or declaration attesting to the results being alleged by Hile. Hile did not put the issue properly before the U.S. District Court. The 9th Circuit found that since VV-2 was not used for anything material, the contamination issue is not dispositive.

            That is the information I have and Cooper has put forth no additional evidence that (a) proves contamination of VV-2, or (b) proves that contamination occurred via the Sheriff’s Department.

          • DarthYan

            The hairs didn’t have antigen roots. Even if they WERE DOugs and JEssicas they weren’t there because he chopped them.

          • DarthYan

            eckley’s superior signing the report means he approved of it even though it was against protocol to dispose of it without testing.

            And not he Houston stuff is relevant. The crime lab was deliberately forging evidence for the prosecution. San Berandino may have done the same.

            Just because Ecley thought they weren’t doesn’t mean he was right. The superior claims he would have had it tested. He also refused to talk without an attorney.

            You take the officers at their word. Is it really that hard to accept san bernadino county was dirty

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The signature on the report is solely meant to signify that the report was reviewed after being completed by the deputy. Read the testimony.

            “The Court held an evidentiary hearing on April 1, 2004 where former Deputy Sheriff Ken Schreckengost, and former Deputy Eckley testified. Deputy Schrekengost was Deputy Sheriff at the Yucaipa station during the time of the murders. (4/1/05 HRT 8.) In January 1983, he was promoted to Senior Deputy and assigned as watch commander over the deputies in the field. (4/1/05 HRT 54.) He had no recollection of initialing the disposition report, but recognized his initials on the report. (4/1/04 HRT 31.) As a watch commander, the disposition reports would normally have been in his inbox because “nine out of ten times” the person who filled out report would not be on the same shift. (4/1/05 HRT 56.) In reviewing a disposition report, he looked to see if the report was properly filled out. (4/1/05 HRT 56.) Deputy Schreckengost stated he never discussed the coveralls with Deputy Eckley and has never seen the coveralls. (4/1/05 HRT 57.) ”

            The saga of the Houston crime lab is not relevant because the events occurred long after Cooper was convicted in a jurisdiction that had no part in the investigation of the Ryen/Hughes murders. In fact, Houston is 1,500+ miles from California. It’s a ridiculous argument.

            Eckley’s observations have not been proven to be wrong. In fact, his testimony at a pre-trial hearing and his later testimony before Judge Huff were consistent.

            Once again, you’re making things up. There is no statement from Deputy Schreckengost stating that he would have tested the coveralls, nor is there any evidence that Deputy Schreckengost retained an attorney to represent him in connection with the hearings in 2004.

            I am not going to label a jurisdiction “dirty” without concrete evidence to support that finding. None of the testimony prior to trial, at trial, or in subsequent hearings has proven any of Cooper’s allegations regarding tampering. The actions of two individuals are not relevant to the actions of other members of the same department. Cooper has also never proven that either Tidwell, or Baird committed any type of malfeasance in his case.

            Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact that Cooper is, was and always will be a violent felon who lies to avoid responsibility for his crimes?

          • DarthYan

            you didn’t address that blood pools and that the hairs weren’t conclusive

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Because there’s no way to address them. They are bits of propaganda that you continue to repeat, in spite of the lack of evidentiary or scientific support.

          • DarthYan

            No I’m not. There were no antigen roots, and Josh himself admitted he showered there in the past

          • DarthYan

            also Long beach was WEST of the ryen home. And Furrows stepmom lived a few minutes away…..yeah the people who believe cooper did it are simply not terribly smart

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            youre going full tard here-why on earth would you think this serial criminal who raped a woman didn’t kill this family when all evidence points to his guilt? You think cops planting evidence would do so sloppily? No one believes you-just a few bleeding heart idiots who ;led shiitty lives and think that helping someone not be executed will make things better. Think of the family that was murdered you selfish prick! How dare you defend this human crap!

          • DarthYan

            Yes they Would. The judge himself said the examination of the scene was beyond sloppy so if they examined evidence sloppily they would do the same planting it. Being a criminal doesn’t make him a murderer so no you’re full of it saying “think of the family.” The number of inconsistencies builds up; the fact that evidence kept vanishing and resurfaced differently also builds the impression. Your appealing purely to emotion; when multiple people say they saw three white men covered in blood within a mile at the time than I’m sorry cooper being in the house means literally shit.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            ten years ago your side tried this crap and you lost-heres an article that counters every single thing you said-sorry, but this rapist and murderer will fry. And I hope one of your family member is murdered so you see the kind of pain your causing to that man who survived. http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/CooperReview.htm

          • DarthYan

            I tried reading that article but the fact that when Schwarzenegger looked at the second clemency petition he actually conceded that new evidence as disturbing and said that records needed review (hence leaving it to Jerry) implies to me that rush died is a liar and a hack who ignores things that dusagree

            Also class act buddy. Given that Jennifer Thomson was certain Ronald cotton raped her and was wrong in sorry victims rights sometimes need to be ignored. I’m sorry for Josh’s loss; but his refusal to consider that the cops might have botched it makes him arrogant

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            why are you defending this man who raped two women? are you a misogynist?

          • DarthYan

            no. You only punish people for crimes they convicted. It’s why even if Steven Aery is guilty of killing Haibach (I don’t know for certain) he shouldn’t have been imprisoned for raping Penny BErtsen, since Gregory Allen was the actual rapist in that case. It’s why Terry Harper should have gone down for the Lake Waco murders even if David Spence was a thug; Spence was a thug but in all likelihood harper was the one murdered those people

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            the three men weren’t covered in blood-that was a lie-they had stains on their clothes-that’s it-don’t make up shiit

          • DarthYan

            Now your lying. Three witnesses said it was blood; others didn’t know what it was all agreed they were oddly behaved and when one of the witnesses (Lance Starke) came forwards the cops visited him at work and said “it’s in your best interests not to testify”. Translation: don’t dare testify. That implies that there is truth to the “covered in blood” account.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            no-YOURE LYING-read my article-it states very clearly that the witnesses “thought” it “may have” been blood-they weren’t sure

          • DarthYan

            Uh you still didn’t explain why the cops tried to strong arm lance starke

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            you haven’t addressed ANYTHING I wrote so im not going to return the courtesy. When you advise how DNA was planted, the sheath was planted, the blood of the Ryens was planted, the DNA on the cigs was planted, the timing of Cooper being in the house, Cooper being in the Ryen house, sigh…wow so much…Cooper raping a woman in Mexico, Cooper raping another woman years ago, Ryen hair in the house Cooper was in, man…get to work!!

          • DarthYan

            1.) the dna vial was checked out for 24 hours by Daniel gregonis prior to testing. Gregonis took some blood from the vial planted it on the shirt and then put someone else’s blood in the vial (explaining the two peoples blood). That’s how the blood was planted on the shirt
            2.) the cigs were physically larger and rerolled so I doubt they were the same cigs
            3.) the guy was on the run in jail. It’s a coincidence but hardly an impossible one. Shit happens
            4.) the sheath was found on the road side. J Patrick o Connor already went into detail about how the sheath wasn’t conclusive
            5.) being a rapist isn’t the same as being a killer. It’s a red herring
            6.) I can just as easily point out how there was no money taken from the house and how the experienced car thief wouldn’t have needed to break in

            There. Even if cooper is guilty the cops most definitely planted evidence. Their handling of the crime scene was like a four year old

            I quoted j Patrick o Connor who went into great detail about how

          • DarthYan

            they did actually. Also given that the cops tried to bully one witness it’s safe to say even cops don’t disregard it. At the very least it raises questions

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            wow-youre truly retarded-you just admitted Cooper was in the house but that doesnt mean anything? what was he doing there? just hanging? not raping anyone? not killing anyone? youre a delusional turd and we will never allow this human shiit to live once we get the death penalty going again here. We owe it to the family

          • DarthYan

            He was on the run and the house was abandoned. He used it to hide out before fleeing to Mexico. All he did was hide there before going SOUTH into Mexico. That’s all. In the end it’s a red herring. That he was hiding in the house doesn’t mean a damn thing.

            And given that Peggy Ryan’s sister said she thinks cooper’s innocent you’re being disengenuous.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            why are you buying his lies? why was the Ryen blood in that house? Why was Cooper’s DNA in the Ryen house? Why were hairs form the Ryens in the house Cooper was in? The sheath for the hatchet? all planted? are you serious? why do TWO defense lawyers now say Cooper was guilty as hell? what is your agenda? are you related to Cooper?

          • DarthYan

            1.) considering the corruption displayed by baird sheriff stick well and gregonis (he checked the vial out for 24 hours and it had the blood of two people afterwards) yes the sheath was planted. Real cops have done far worse and evidence had a history of “vanishing” and “reappearing” and the fact that the evidence was only found later. I read cjlf; they omitted that the cops tried to bully a witness in 04 and ignored m that sitwell gregonis and Baird were crooks

            By the flip side the fact that Peggy’s sister and several jury members now believe cooper means I could ask why you think him guilty.

            I feel that the prosecution has lied at worst and at best were incompetent. Hence we should not apply the ultimate sanction

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            give it up-or file charges about planting evidence-its over-the rapist and killer will die-we must protect society
            the jury members were lied to-thats why they switched-didn’t you read my rebuttal?

          • DarthYan

            I did. It was as consistent as David dukes ranting on black people

          • DarthYan

            I did. David Duke’s arguments are more convincing and he’s a racist idiot.

          • DarthYan

            stickwell PLED guilty to avoid jail time; he was a corrupt bastard no question. Baird was caught stealing heroin to fuel his habit and sell; yet he never faced jail time. Why is that? Unless you can give good reasons you’re a coward.

          • DarthYan

            Dennis Kotmeir admitted that he struck the scene before it was fully examined to screw over the defense. The cops allowed 70 people through the scene. The trial judge himself said the cops did a shitty job. They were incompetent and they were certainly not above forging evidence.

          • DarthYan

            Given that Peggy yen’s sister AGREES with the defense the two defense lawyers saying he’s guilty mean nothing

          • DarthYan

            According to what little analysis was done of the scene Doug made it to his wife’s side of the bed and back to his own before expiring. Jessica made it from the house briefly before being dragged back in. Peggy died cradling her child. That implies that both of them were awake and fought back however briefly. Since both had loaded weapons, it’s downright asinine to assume Cooper did it alone. More importantly the assault took 4 minutes at most. So one man, juggling multiple weapons, overpowered two physically fit adults with loaded weapons when they were awake, managed to drag a kid back upstairs, inflicted more than 100 injuries while switching weapons…..in under four minutes. You don’t see how utterly stupid that theory sounds?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            nope-only takes one maniac in a dark house to kill people-no other DNA was found

          • DarthYan

            Doug and Peggy had loaded weapons and Doug fought back. Peggy could easily grab her gun and shoot cooper while he struggled with doug

          • DarthYan

            To quote J O’Connor; who pretty much makes mincemeat of the prosecution

            “At Cooper’s trial, the prosecution argued that a single drop of blood in the Ryens’ house linked Cooper to the crime. This tiny drop was entered into evidence as “A-41.” It was allegedly found at the far end of a hallway wall near the Ryens’ living room, a few inches above the hallway carpeting. It was “found” by acting crime lab manager William Baird. Baird would be fired shortly after Cooper’s trial concluded in 1985 for stealing five pounds of heroin from the property room at the sheriff’s department. He admitted he stole the heroin to supply his own drug habit and to sell it back to drug dealers for profit. The five pounds he was caught stealing had a street value of $150,000. Despite committing grand larcency, Baird would not be prosecuted.

            Although A-41 was turned over to the crime lab for testing on June 7, 1983 — two days after the Chino Hills murders were discovered and before Cooper was even known to have stayed at the hideout house — Crime Lab Criminalist Daniel Gregonis waited five days to even test it to find out if it was human blood. By this time, Cooper had been named as the lone assailant of the murders and his genetic profile had arrived at the crime lab courtesy of the Pittsburgh, Pa., Police Department.

            Gregonis delayed the most sensitive and discriminating tests of A-41 until he had a vial of Cooper’s blood that was withdrawn from Cooper in the crime lab on August 1, 1983, two days after Cooper was arrested. As Gregonis finally admitted during cross-examination at Cooper’s trial, instead of running a blind test of A-41 and Cooper’s blood sample as lab testing protocol called for. Gregonis placed a sample of Cooper’s blood on the same testing plate with A-41 and reported that the blood characteristics of A-41 matched those of Cooper’s blood. By the time Gregonis finished being cross-examined, A-41 as a link to Cooper was destroyed.

            When the Ryens’ station wagon was found in Long Beach six days after the murders were discovered, sheriff’s deputies visually inspected the vehicle’s contents and then did a more thorough inventory of the car’s interior when they impounded it and processed it for evidence. Neither of thse detailed reports indicated the presence of cigarette butts or loose tobacco in the car. A later inventory report — handwritten, undated, unsigned — would include both. Considering that Cooper was alleged to have fled alone in the station wagon, the loose tobacco’s location, on the floor between the front passenger seat and the front passenger door, was puzzling, and so were the locations of the two cigarette butts.

            The hand-rolled butt was in the passenger side seat, pressed into the crevice by the vertical and horizontal portions of the seat. The Viceroy butt was under the passenger seat. The location of both the rolled butt and the Viceroy butt suggested someone sitting in the passenger seat had deposited them. The blood evidence in the car also supported the notion that someone had sat in the passenger seat. When Luminol testing of the car was conducted the day after it was found, a positive reaction for blood was detected from the passenger compartment, seat, and floorboard. There was also blood on the lower portion of the driver’s door, the driver’s headrest, and in the back seat area as well. Blood in three separate areas of the station wagon would support the eyewitness testimony of Mr. and Mrs. Leonard, who reported seeing three white men driving rapidly away from the direction of the Ryens’ house around midnight on the night of the assault at the Ryens’ house. It also matched exactly what Josh Ryen told ER personnel that his attackers were three white men.

            The prosecution would contend at trial, based on Luminol testing of the shower in the hidelout house, that in washing up after the murders, Cooper had left traces of the victims’ blood on the shower walls in a broad swatch that went from two feet to approximately five feet above the shower’s floor. Inexplicably, there was no signs of the blood draining on the shower floor itself. A shower would cause the blood on a person splattered with blood to run down his body to the shower’s floor, not aggregate on the shower’s walls in a three-foot band ending some two-feet above the floor.

            The day before Cooper occupied the hideout house, Kathy Bilbia, the previous tenant, finished moving out, but not before cleaning the shower with bleach, a substance that reacts to Luminol testing in the same manner blood does — it shows up.

            Due to the total contamination and destruction of the crime scene, no one has ever been able to determine how the assault on the Ryens occurred; no one knows the order of their deaths. Mr. Wexler claiming that he does is simply off the wall. The medical examiner, before the crime scene was completely destroyed, was able to conclude that Doug Ryen made it from his side of the bed to his wife’s side of the bed and then back to his side of the bed where his body was found. The medical examiner also had blood evidence that Mrs. Ryen was at some point cradling her daughter.”

            J Patrick O

          • DarthYan

            no we don’t. Peggy Ryen’s sister think’s cooper is innocent. Also, Chris’s mom arrogantly thinks she knows the law better than the lawyer’s association that spoke on cooper’s behalf.

          • DarthYan

            I am. Just because josh thinks it happened doesn’t make it so. He was traumatized and the cops (who honestly thought copper guilty) were constantly saying “no you’re wrong it was cooper” and when you take into account how malleable memory is the cops unwittingly placed false memories

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            Josh only saw ONE figure-that NEVER changed. He NEVER said it was three people-he couldn’t speak-that was all communicated through hand touching

          • DarthYan

            And throughout that he specifically implicated three people. After he healed he even said (after seeing cooper on television) that cooper WAS NOT the person he saw. The only one lying is you

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            nope-he always said ONE person

          • DarthYan

            actually he did finger three men. He even told his granny Cooper WASN’T the attacker

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            he never said that

          • Ben Mullins

            Again, I’m not declaring his innocence, but you continue to answer questions with another question. And what is it that tells you that some of the folks that believe he could be innocent, lead shiitty lives? Just curious.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            many bleeding heart anti-death penalty people are making up for something bad in their lives-its a pscyh test

          • Ben Mullins

            That’s quire the generalization. And you don’t think that there are pro-death people making up for bad things in their lives? A ‘psyche test’ as you say?

          • DarthYan

            Again it doesn’t. When the guy’s on the run, can steam the car WITHOUT getting an additional manhunt, when no money was stolen even though he needed it, when his destination (Tijauana) was SOUTHEAST and the car was found NORTHWEST….no the logic is against it. Only an idiot would think he was guilty or wouldn’t entertain that th cops forged evidence

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            nope-all wrong-no proof anything was planted. Why are you defending a two time rapist and 4 time murderer? What the phuck is wrong with you?

          • DarthYan

            there is. the cops forged evidence and the judges ignored it because they care about finality rather than the truth.

            I’m defending a man who commited crimes, but never crossed the line to murder and feel that a man should be punished for what he’s done but not for what he hasn’t done regardless of the man he is

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            wheres the proof he didn’t kill them? because there is ample proof he did. Youre really saying there is proof that 700 PIECES of evidence were planted against innocent, angel like Cooper? are you joking? Regardless, a two time rapist also deserves death so theres really no point in arguing about his crimes!

          • DarthYan

            I never said he was an angel you idiot. I argued that given how badly the cops handled the scene, and the dicey behind the scenes shit the 700 pieces are either non existent or don’t matter

          • Mads

            It does not work that way.
            They have to prove that he did.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            they did prove it (hint-its called a jury trail)-Cooper actually insisted the DNA test would free him but because he DID IT-it did not…

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            please stop this-you are hurting this poor woman who lost a son to this vicious monster named Kevin Cooper. the DNA nailed his coffin shut-he must die or we care nothing for victims. And he WILL die-there is nothing left to appeal. http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/saunders/article/Kevin-Cooper-is-still-guilty-that-s-a-Death-6404291.php

          • DarthYan

            I hurt no one. You can be said to be hurting Peggy’s sister since she didn’t think cooper did it.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            no one cares what some person’s sister “thinks” or you for that matter. The human shiit will die and you cant stop it. Now go do something better with your life. Youre certainly not going to improve any family or friend relations if you keep defending rapists and murderers. There probably is someone on death row that is innocent, but it is NOT Kevin Cooper.

          • DarthYan

            except that someone is the victim. the sister of the victim is unconvinced he did it. Also you haven’t commented on the DA admitting he struck the scene to screw over the defense or the fact that TWO people’s blood were in that vial. Or the fact that the expert who “found” the stain was unprotected for grand larceny.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            his own people said he did it-clearly-and YOU are being very dishonest by stating that the DNA test that are used to free innocent people were somehow manipulated to convict this piece of human shiit-we wont let you do it- “It is utterly unreasonable to suppose that, by coincidence, some hypothetical real killer chose this night and this locale to kill; that he entered (the neighbor’s) house just after defendant left to retrieve the murder weapons, leaving the hatchet sheath in the bedroom defendant used; that he returned to the (neighbor’s) house to shower; that he drove the Ryen station wagon in the same direction defendant used on his way to Mexico; and that he happened to wear prison issue tennis shoes like those of the defendant, happened to have the defendant’s blood type, happened to have hair like the defendant’s, happened to roll cigarettes with the same distinctive prison-issued tobacco, and so forth,” reasoned a 1991 California Supreme Court ruling. That’s why a jury convicted him.

          • DarthYan

            The supreme court ignored that cooper would have had to have gone north on a detour, steal ANOTHER car and be at tijuana within 9 hours. And it’s just as absurd that a guy on the run who was an experienced car thief in need of money would have bothered to break into a house and not take money even when he was begging his girlfriends for cash and wouldn’t have just taken the keys in the fucking station wagon. All the other stuff has been addressed. The shoes weren’t unique; the blood stain was unreliable.

            The supreme court got it wrong. That you’re unable to acknowledge it isn’t my problem nor is it that when the cigarettes reappeared they were REROLLED and physically larger.

            So no. I hope he gets clemency. Because sometimes the victims families are wrong and their feelings need to be ignored.

          • DarthYan

            when the court ignored the blatant inconsistenceis (Cooper wouldn’t have needed to enter the house, the car was found NORTHWEST and cooper was heading SOUTHEAST)

            It is reasonable to assume the cops found the sheath on the road or elsewhere and planted it there.

            This is the county that had “hang the nigger” signs at trial. The cigarettes were rolled differently (they were larger when found.)

            Who is “WE!” Normally I’d support it. When the evidence resurfaced after being “lost” more than once, when the vial had TWO people’s blood, when the police refused to prosecute their expert after the trial even though the guy was guilty of grand larceny….I’m sorry if you can’t see a pattern you’re either a liar or an imbecile. The cops planted evidence. Lee Furrow and his friends probably killed the ryens; Josh only i’d cooper because the police told him repeatedly while he was traumitized. Judge Fletcher went into great detail how the “wasn’t planted” arguments were basically bupkiss, and when it came time to decide whether cooper got a new trial….he lost by ONE vote. Maybe two. More than the six judges who supported Cooper agreed he was robbed of a trial that was fair. In that case I’m sorry. The prosecution were corrupt bastards. Kottmeir, if there’s justice, would be fired and thrown in jail. He was far more garbage then cooper is. Chris’s mother….I’m sorry but she’s basically being extremely arrogant.

            Also, the supreme court got detaisl wrong and ignored other absurdities (the ryens had the keys IN THE CAR, Cooper was a car thief and even when Cooper needed money none was taken. Credit cards were found in FULL VIEW.)

          • Lisa O’Brien

            DarthYan, you obviously haven’t bothered looking at a map. Long Beach is SOUTHWEST of Chino Hills, not northwest.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            the DNA was 1 in 310 billion-that’s just coincidence too? are you so bleeding heart that you don’t regard any of the facts?? This is a case considered open and shut-there is no evidence anyone else did it-none at all-there were 700 pieces of evidence and hundreds all pointed to Cooper. Even the DNA tests he was given years later PROIVED he was guilty

          • DarthYan

            Unless you Adress the fact two peoples blood were in the vial and that gregonis checked it out prior to testing AND that there was eta on the tan shirt than no I have to conclude your an imbecile and that it isn’t clear cut and that no the cops did plant it.

            Josh Ryen did initially implicate three white dudes and even besides the three people one of whom was threatened two others saw a car that looked like the Ryan’s station wagon roaring past them with three white guysZ the prosecutions case is nor hokey than Swiss cheese. If the dp is abolished in CA I will laugh at your tears

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            what youre proposing is not possible-planting 700 pieces of evidence and Cooper was just coincidentally there? that’s idiotic

          • DarthYan

            more like -700.

          • DarthYan

            when the blood vial had two people’s blood, when the guy who found the blood stain was proven to have committed grand larceny, when the prosecutor expert hurriedly withdrew his findings when it proved the opposite of what was expected….no it’s not. If anything the evidence points AWAY . The DNA test is suspect; notably when Fletcher did an in depth analysis explaining why the “it wasn’t planted” was a load of crap the guy who wrote the concurring opinion didn’t actually go into detail about what fletcher said or why he was wrong. He just said “a previous judge covered it, you should not have drawn conclusions that will confuse people” without going into detail about WHY the reasons Fletcher used were flawed. That reeks of cowardice. Notably 12 judges felt that Cooper had been robbed of a fair trial and McKeowen said that she also thought something was off. It was only because of the antiterrorism act of 96. Otherwise she would have given him relief.

            Kottemir was an incompetent buffoon who in a just world would be fired in disgrace. Same with every of the incompetent buffoons. on the case

          • Mads

            The chance that it was planted is not 1 in 310 billion though.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            DarthYan, it’s actually unreasonable to rely on conclusory allegations made in the media and never presented, let alone proven, in any of Cooper’s many post-conviction claims to say that Cooper is innocent.

            What bathroom floor are you referring to? If it’s the Lease house, then the presence or absence of blood is not dispositive. Hair from both Jessica Ryen and Doug Ryen were found in the Lease house.

            The alleged presence of “foreign” blood in a vial is also not dispositive of Cooper’s innocence. In fact, this appears to be yet another conclusory allegation that has neither been presented, nor proven in any court.

            The irregularities with the search of the vehicle and the location of the cigarettes and tobacco were raised with the jury, who did not find them sufficient to raise doubts about Cooper’s guilt.

            Midge Carroll’s statements about the ProKeds shoes were not based on her own firsthand knowledge. They were based, allegedly, on investigation done by subordinates. They were also soundly refuted by records and testimony directly from Stride Rite, the manufacturer, which proved that the shoes were only available to government agencies and not for retail sale.

          • jrube

            Well said!

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            nope-he did it-the evidence all points to him (hint-he had their car for starters)

          • DarthYan

            NOtably 5 jurors have expressed doubts. 2 still think he’s guilty but are uncomfortable executing him without further questions. That’s Half the damn jury. At least one said she would never vote to convict had she known of lee furrow and that she was outraged that the guy who found the print was a heroin addict stealing drugs.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            A jury is comprised of 12 people. Therefore, five people does not constitute half the jury. It ‘s actually one shy of half the jury. Those opinions are also based solely on Cooper’s allegations, which have been presented to the jurors as proven. Seven members of the jury obviously did not buy what Cooper and his investigators were trying to sell, because they declined to advocate on his behalf.

            As for Lee Furrow, Negus could have called Diana Roper to tell her story. He knew about Roper, the coveralls and their destruction. He chose not to call her because she was a meth addict and the fact that Furrow left her for her best friend the night of the murders would expose her bias.

            There were two other shoe prints, one in the Lease house, where Cooper admitted he hid out, and one on the spa cover outside the Ryen master bedroom. The two prints were consistent with each other and the Pro-Keds shoes that Cooper admitted he was wearing when he testified at trial.

          • jfoster13

            I think you need to go back and read the article. It states that there are judges who believe he is innocent of the murders for which he received the death sentence. He had escaped from a minimum security prison prior to those murders. It did not say he committed any other murders! Try to be objective here and let your prejudices relax for a minute.

          • Adam Vant

            You’re right, I am prejudiced. I have a thing against vicious murderers. Hopefully Kevin Cooper will be executed soon as he so rightfully deserves.

          • http://Masterbaitonline.com John Doeboy

            Maybe not prejudiced… more likely just an idiot. You’re one of those “liberal agenda” guys, right? One of those, “if people obey the law then nothing unjust ever happens” guys… am I still on the right track? One of those, “Obama is a muslim sympathizer, and possibly a muslim himself,” right? Climate change is a scam because it’s warm where I live, “damn liberal agenda!” guys, right? Guns are not a real issue, “it’s the murderous illegals flooding our borders and the blacks in chicago,” right. #Trump2016, right? You’re a faux news puppet. Most likely from Alabama, Arizona, or Florida.

          • jrube

            Really, you have to make this into a political discussion?

          • Adam Vant

            Cooper’s lawyers argued that DNA testing, unavailable during the 1985 trial, would exonerate Cooper. When the tests finally were done, DNA nailed Cooper to the crime scene, where he claimed never to have been. The guy is guilty. He’s a vicious murderer and deserves to die. Hopefully he’ll be executed soon.

          • DarthYan

            since two people’s blood were in that vial, that doesn’t mean a thing.

          • Ron

            You are a lying piece of scum. Dna never linked him coward. They only did a blood test that did not match and the never did a dna test liar.

          • Adam Vant

            Death to Kevin Cooper! Die Kevin Cooper! Murdering scum Kevin Cooper!

          • Charles Hill

            Why you lie?

          • jrube

            My Gosh, you really are a vile person. I’ll bet you are the type of person who is always right, in your own mind that is. I’ll bet those who are living around you or work with you find you to be a real PITA.

          • Eddy Sealy

            Your dad should have put you in a condom..

          • Adam Vant

            Your feelings don’t change the facts that Kevin Cooper is a vicious murderer who hopefully will be executed soon.

          • Olive Seraphim

            You think you know better than the judges who said his trial was equivalent to no trial at all and that he’s most likely innocent?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            those judges are bleeding heart liberals-their opinion is not valid

          • Ben Mullins

            hahaha! Anyone who decides to turn this into a political piece, automatically becomes discredited. Agendas everywhere…

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            no, dummy-its an agenda because the 700 pieces of evidence all point to Cooper-you really think the cops planted 700 pieces of evidence on poor rapist Cooper?

          • Ben Mullins

            Again, you resort to childish name calling. Can you think for yourself? Or do you speak what is put in front of you? Just curious, because you have, on a couple of occasions already, brought up politics and screaming liberals. Is it that folks are thinking and reacting for themselves and not conforming to your ideals of this case? Are you scared to go against the grain and read further into things? Or are you content with what is put in front of you and trust that what is said or done is your world, is for the better…?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            I read many article son the case-why should I be polite to someone defending a rapist and murderer? I care about the VICTIMS

          • Ben Mullins

            Do you prefer Fox News over any other sources?

          • DarthYan

            since the dna was claimed lost at first only to resurface……yeah. If you don’t think that’s odd

          • DarthYan

            You’re prejudiced against an innocent man. Given that the cops WERE corrupt (they destroyed exculpatory evidence and lied about it) that the blood evidence wasn’t as airtight (it had a history of vanishing and resurfacing, was checked out for twentyfour hours and had TWO people’s blood in the vial) and that multiple people independently vouched to seeing three white men covered in blood it’s likely, nay probable that it was lee furrow and his crew who killed the ryens

          • Adam Vant

            Baloney. Kevin Cooper has appealed and appealed and appealed and appealed and been turned down over and over. He must die for his vicious crimes. Die Kevin Cooper! Die!

          • DarthYan

            even judges who said the verdict is upheld have stated that the police broke the law by destroying the coveralls. Also, there have been quite a few exonerated inmates whose sentences were “upheld” by the court. Even if Cooper is guilty the cops WERE guilty of corruption in that case. As I said, the vial had TWO people’s blood in. That implies the cops removed some of Cooper’s blood and put someone elses blood to hide it.

            More importantly a.) according to what little analysis of the crime scene was done, doug and peggy probably DID fight back. Doug made it to his wife’s side of the bed and than struggled back. That implies he WASN’T asleep when struck. b.) Peggy Ryen cradled her daughter as she died. Again, how could she do that if she was asleep c.) the daughter Jessica made it out of the house very briefly.

            How could one man, juggling multiple weapons at the same time (a hatchet, an ice pick and a third) overpower two physically fit ARMED adults (both the parents had guns) while controlling three children WHILE juggling weapons….in the span of a few minutes. It’s ridiculous. Jessica had a BLONDE Hair in her hand when she was found

            Also, not only did two people near the house vouch for seeing a van that looked like the ryens leaving. Shortly afterwards witnesses in a bar near the place saw three white men COVERED in blood walk in. One of them was wearing coveralls. By sheer coincidence…..furrow had coveralls on.

            AGain. Lee Furrow slaughtered the Ryens

          • Adam Vant

            Kevin Cooper has filed multiple appeals and applications for a writ of habeas corpus, all of which have been denied. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals denied Cooper’s third petition for a writ of habeas corpus. The court said, “As the district court, and all state courts, have repeatedly found, evidence of Cooper’s guilt was overwhelming. The tests that he asked for to show his innocence ‘once and for all’ show nothing of the sort.” Die, Kevin Cooper, die!

          • DarthYan

            some of the judges said that the verdict had to be upheld regardless of doubts. The Circuit court of appeals may have gotten it wrong. You think that just because they were denied it means that they were illegitimate. Tell that to David Spence. Just because the court found a certain way doesn’t make it right. I laid out very clear evidence. You’re basically sticking fingers in your ears going LALALALALA I’m not listening LALALALALA

          • Adam Vant

            The court ruled. Kevin Cooper is guilty. He must be executed for his heinous crimes. And when he is executed I will raise a glass and toast the Great State of California for finally dispensing justice.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            youre nuts-all evidence clearly point to Cooper-there is no one else

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            so tell us how 700 pieces of evidence were planted and just coincidentally Cooper was 50 yards away from the Ryens and stole their car

          • DarthYan

            Uh witnesses saw three men behind the wheel and the blood stains were in the back seat. Did cooper climb into the back seat? Also cooper went south. The car was found NORTHWEST. He was in Mexico 9 hours after the murders so I doubt he made a loop northwest then went south.

          • FredZiffel

            As someone previously pointed out, you don’t even understand basic geography. Long Beach is not northwest of Chino Hills, Long Beach would also be the most logical route to Mexico as Cooper was most familiar with this area after living in LA County under an assumed name after escaping from a mental institution in Pennsylvania after being confined there for the rape of a child.

          • DarthYan

            Cooper was in Tijuana by 930 the next morning. He would have taken an hour to get there and it would have created a detour

            Long beach was west of chino hills. Tijuana was south. Not even close to his route

          • DarthYan

            La county is huge. He had no ties to long beach. Lee furrow’s stepmom lived there. Even if Cooper was violent he was a good enough hotwirer that he would have just driven off in the car without setting foot in the house. You seen eager to denounce the ideas cops are dirty

          • DarthYan

            Immmm. Long beach was WEST. Cooper was heading south and was there within 9 hours of the murder. If he went to long beach and ditched the car he would have had to hotwire a new car and take a longer drive down south. It doesn’t hold up in any way shape or form

            I also noticed that you cheerfully ignored the blood in the backseat of the car (no reason for cooper to go there. You’re basically appealing to emotion.) I’m using logic

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            why on earth would you think a proven rapist is innocent of murder given all of the mountains of evidence?

          • DarthYan

            given that the judge himself said the cops were incompetent in the investigation, and that the prosecutors refused to try the expert WHO STOLE HEROIN FROM LOCKUP EVEN WHEN THEY KNEW HE WAS GUILTY, it’s safe to say the “mountains” or more like “valleys of nonexistent and or dubious as shit” evidence. That you’re stupid enough to believe the police that the judge himself insulted and called incompetent (and this was the judge when cooper was tried) wouldn’t have a problem forging evidence or may have botched things isn’t my problem

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The dissents at the 9th Circuit have no legal bearing on the case. They are actually an example of how pervasive and egregious Cooper’s claims have become. The only opinions that matter are those that have consistent affirmed Cooper’s conviction and sentence and rejected all of his claims of innocence.

            In 2001, Cooper argued that DNA testing would exonerate him. When the DNA further implicated him, his advocates have embarked on a campaign of misinformation and “trial by media” to prove that he was framed.

          • jfoster13

            Thank you for a response that made some sense. Adam Vant just wants the guy executed without any argument against what was said in the article. You at least added some additional detail. However, the fact that there are judges who believe that the guy is innocent (assuming that’s true), and the fact that there have been horrible mistakes where innocent people have been put on death row, is it worth executing this person or should his sentence be commuted to life in prison to avoid making a horrible mistake?

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Those judges believe he “may be innocent.” Their opinion, however, appears to be solely based on the conclusory allegations made by Cooper, but never proven by him to the District Court, or the panel of the 9th Circuit responsible for deciding whether he was entitled to habeas relief on those claims. In fact, a reading of the original 9th Circuit opinion suggests that the dissenting members of the court ignored the prior evidentiary determinations made by the deciding panel:

            https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/04/0599004noappendix.pdf

            Most egregiously, the judges ignored the results of post-conviction DNA testing that confirmed Cooper’s guilt:

            “Petitioner’s successive petition challenges the results of this post-conviction DNA testing. These DNA results provide strong evidence that Petitioner is the killer and sole person responsible for the Ryen/Hughes murders. (DOJ Physical Evidence Exam Report dated July 2, 2002; Supplemental DOJ Physical Evidence Exam Report dated Sept. 24, 2002.) Specifically the results established that Petitioner was the donor of the DNA found on the following items:

            “(1) a bloodstain in the Ryen home near the master bedroom where the victims were attacked matched Cooper’s DNA profile and was found to occur at random in the population with a frequency of approximately 1 in 310 billion for African Americans, 1 in 270 billion for Caucasians, and 1 in 340 billion for Western Hispanics;

            “(2) two cigarette butts found in the stolen Ryen station wagon when it was recovered in Long Beach had Cooper’s DNA, with one cigarette having enough DNA sample that it would occur at random in the population with a frequency of about 1 in 19 billion African Americans, 1 in 11 billion for Caucasians, and 1 in 15 billion for Western Hispanics; and the other cigarette having enough DNA sample that it would occur at random in the population with a frequency of about 1 in 110 million African Americans, 1 in 16 million for Caucasians, and 1 in 12 million for Western Hispanics; and

            “(3) a bloodstain on a[T-] shirt found on the side of a road within two miles of the Ryen home had DNA matching Cooper’s and partial DNA profiles matching that of two of the victims, Doug and Peggy Ryen. The DNA matching Cooper’s found on the t-shirt occurs at random in the population with a frequency of about 1 in 110 million for African Americans, 1 in 16 million for Caucasians, and 1 in 12 million for Western Hispanics.

            “(Supplemental DOJ Physical Evidence Exam Report dated Sept. 24, 2002 at 1-4.) In addition to the DNA evidence inculpating Petitioner, DNA profiles of blood taken from a hatchet that was taken from the house where Petitioner hid after his escape from prison matched that of several of the victims including Doug Ryen, Jessica Ryen and Chris Hughes. (Supplemental DOJ Physical Evidence Exam Report dated Sept. 24, 2002 at 4.)”

            Further testing post-2001 failed to prove Cooper’s innocence:

            “According to the report, the hairs contained in Jessica Ryen’s hands were either animal hairs or hairs from Jessica herself or from someone maternally related to her. (Dr. Melton’s Report at 6-8.) Two of the ten hairs selected by Dr. DeForest, Petitioner’s expert, were from domestic dogs. (Dr. Melton’s Report at 3.) The results confirmed that Jessica Ryen, Peggy Ryen, and Josh Ryen and their maternal relatives could not be excluded as the donors of the tested hairs, including the hairs found in Jessica Ryen’s hand. (Dr. Melton’s Report at 6-8.)”

            Cooper bears the burden of proving his claims. The fact that the state and federal courts have ruled against him indicates that he has failed to meet his burden.

          • Ron

            Absolutely wrong

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Your response is insufficient, Ron.

          • DarthYan

            given that the blood vial had TWO people’s blood in the vial, as well as how even aside from the 6 judges ANOTHER 6 felt that evidence had been suppressed enough to warrant a retrial it could just be that the federal court members are idiots. The Cigarettes were only found on the THIRD search of the car.

            I’ll just quote J patrick o conner on the subject

            “It was never established at trial or at any other time that the other weapons used in the Chino Hills murders — an ice pick and one or two knives — were from the hideout house. I know this because I read and annotated the trial transcript. What has always struct me as so completely counter-intuitive is that one assailant would or even could use three or four weapons to carry out this brutal assault. Both Doug Ryen and Peggy Ryen were fit 41-year-olds who kept loaded weapons in the master bedroom. We know from the medical examiner’s report that Doug Ryen made it on foot from his side of the bed to his wife’s side of the bed and then back to his side of the bed during this attack. If there had only been one assialant, Peggy would have had time to reach into her nightstand drawer and pull out the loaded Ruger pistol she kept there. We also know from the blood patters that the medical examiner noted that at some time during this attack Peggy was standing over her daughter. We know from expert trial testimony that Jessica made it outside the house during the attack. Once again, if there was only assailant, Peggy would have had time to get her Ruger while the lone assailant was outside chasing down Jessica.”

            I still don’t know who Peter Wexler is but I’m going to respond to his latest post in the interest of clarity. He persists, without any proof, in asserting that the quarters Cooper used to pay for his hotel room in Tijuana were stolen from Jessica’s Ryen’s bedroom. I explained in my last post where Cooper got those quarters and that nothing — even money sitting in plain sight in the Ryens’ home — was stolen from the Ryens other than their station wagon.

            At Cooper’s trial, the prosecution argued that a single drop of blood in the Ryens’ house linked Cooper to the crime. This tiny drop was entered into evidence as “A-41.” It was allegedly found at the far end of a hallway wall near the Ryens’ living room, a few inches above the hallway carpeting. It was “found” by acting crime lab manager William Baird. Baird would be fired shortly after Cooper’s trial concluded in 1985 for stealing five pounds of heroin from the property room at the sheriff’s department. He admitted he stole the heroin to supply his own drug habit and to sell it back to drug dealers for profit. The five pounds he was caught stealing had a street value of $150,000. Despite committing grand larcency, Baird would not be prosecuted.

            Although A-41 was turned over to the crime lab for testing on June 7, 1983 — two days after the Chino Hills murders were discovered and before Cooper was even known to have stayed at the hideout house — Crime Lab Criminalist Daniel Gregonis waited five days to even test it to find out if it was human blood. By this time, Cooper had been named as the lone assailant of the murders and his genetic profile had arrived at the crime lab courtesy of the Pittsburgh, Pa., Police Department.

            Gregonis delayed the most sensitive and discriminating tests of A-41 until he had a vial of Cooper’s blood that was withdrawn from Cooper in the crime lab on August 1, 1983, two days after Cooper was arrested. As Gregonis finally admitted during cross-examination at Cooper’s trial, instead of running a blind test of A-41 and Cooper’s blood sample as lab testing protocol called for. Gregonis placed a sample of Cooper’s blood on the same testing plate with A-41 and reported that the blood characteristics of A-41 matched those of Cooper’s blood. By the time Gregonis finished being cross-examined, A-41 as a link to Cooper was destroyed.

            When the Ryens’ station wagon was found in Long Beach six days after the murders were discovered, sheriff’s deputies visually inspected the vehicle’s contents and then did a more thorough inventory of the car’s interior when they impounded it and processed it for evidence. Neither of thse detailed reports indicated the presence of cigarette butts or loose tobacco in the car. A later inventory report — handwritten, undated, unsigned — would include both. Considering that Cooper was alleged to have fled alone in the station wagon, the loose tobacco’s location, on the floor between the front passenger seat and the front passenger door, was puzzling, and so were the locations of the two cigarette butts.

            The hand-rolled butt was in the passenger side seat, pressed into the crevice by the vertical and horizontal portions of the seat. The Viceroy butt was under the passenger seat. The location of both the rolled butt and the Viceroy butt suggested someone sitting in the passenger seat had deposited them. The blood evidence in the car also supported the notion that someone had sat in the passenger seat. When Luminol testing of the car was conducted the day after it was found, a positive reaction for blood was detected from the passenger compartment, seat, and floorboard. There was also blood on the lower portion of the driver’s door, the driver’s headrest, and in the back seat area as well. Blood in three separate areas of the station wagon would support the eyewitness testimony of Mr. and Mrs. Leonard, who reported seeing three white men driving rapidly away from the direction of the Ryens’ house around midnight on the night of the assault at the Ryens’ house. It also matched exactly what Josh Ryen told ER personnel that his attackers were three white men.

            The prosecution would contend at trial, based on Luminol testing of the shower in the hidelout house, that in washing up after the murders, Cooper had left traces of the victims’ blood on the shower walls in a broad swatch that went from two feet to approximately five feet above the shower’s floor. Inexplicably, there was no signs of the blood draining on the shower floor itself. A shower would cause the blood on a person splattered with blood to run down his body to the shower’s floor, not aggregate on the shower’s walls in a three-foot band ending some two-feet above the floor.

            The day before Cooper occupied the hideout house, Kathy Bilbia, the previous tenant, finished moving out, but not before cleaning the shower with bleach, a substance that reacts to Luminol testing in the same manner blood does — it shows up.

            Due to the total contamination and destruction of the crime scene, no one has ever been able to determine how the assault on the Ryens occurred; no one knows the order of their deaths. Mr. Wexler claiming that he does is simply off the wall. The medical examiner, before the crime scene was completely destroyed, was able to conclude that Doug Ryen made it from his side of the bed to his wife’s side of the bed and then back to his side of the bed where his body was found. The medical examiner also had blood evidence that Mrs. Ryen was at some point cradling her daughter.

            All this implies that it would have been physically impossible for Cooper to carry out the crime as the prosecution contended, and that the prosecutors DID plant evidence.

            Even judges who didn’t think cooper was innocent suspected that evidence had been planted. AS such the assertions that “the samples disprove the petitioners assertions” is disproven.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            those judges’ opinions are meaningless-they have no jurisdiction and are anti-death penalty and extremely liberal-

          • Ben Mullins

            hmm… Politics again… “Everyone! Just trust the government!”

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            a jury is not the govt, stupid

          • Ben Mullins

            I know, stupid. You must not recognize sarcasm…

          • jrube

            You are a horrible person! The man is innocent and yet you still say execute him. You better hope that you are never convicted for something you did not do. You disgust me.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            hes a killer and youre human shiit for defending him

          • FredZiffel

            Innocent? He’s a two time rapist at the very least. What planet are you living on?

          • Mr_R

            If you accept the results of a rigged process… some judges believed it… others did not because they saw that it was rigged. The simple fact is, it is very easy to get away with murder, particularly of a stranger… and there is pressure on the police to solve a murder. Framing someone becomes a convenient answer. That what happened.

          • Adam Vant

            It wasn’t a rigged trial. The evidence against Kevin Cooper was overwhelming. He was convicted and sentenced to death. The California Supreme Court reviewed the case and found the evidence to be overwhelming. So did the 9th Circuit. Cooper demanded DNA tests, the results of which put him right in the room where Cooper said he wasn’t. No matter how much evidence there was it’ll never convince you and the other triple-murderer-loving fools. Hopefully Kevin Cooper will be executed soon.

          • Ron

            You are the biggest liar around. Pathetic

          • Adam Vant

            Death to Kevin Cooper!

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            there is 100% proof he did it-what do you want? video? shameful

          • Charles Hill

            The only survivor said the men that killed his family was not black. can you see past the fact that he is black and seek justice for the family!

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            nope-thats not what he said

        • http://dismas.tk Darryl Ward

          Look at Vant’s comments elsewhere. He actually believes President Obama – who is a Christian – is a Muslim, and Bernie Sanders is a communist.

          There is no point even attempting to reason with people like that.

          • jfoster13

            Darryl, you might as well talk to a tomato. This guy is narrow-minded and I think he’s enjoying this. You can’t reason with an idiot.

        • Techfan

          I think maybe Adan Vant is one of the three white or hispanic males that the witness described. What better way to cover your own guilt than to blame it on another.

          I think Adam Vant needs to be put down like a rabid dog, the same way he wishes for Cooper to be “put down.”

          • DarthYan

            I think it’s lee furrow kenneth koon and michael darnell. Koon seems to feel some level of guilt and volunteered to cough up hair for mitochondrial testing so maybe he was a witness (i.e. he went in) but didn’t kill anyone. Furrow and Darnell allegedly did the bulk of the slaughter

        • Johnson

          I’m from California and I disagree Mr Adam Vant 😡

    • Gabe Davis

      You dumb ass. Would you say the same if it were your kid in this questionable trial? Go Fuck yourself you Viagra using dildo head.

      • Adam Vant

        It wasn’t a questionable trial. Read the 1991 California Supreme Court decision. I know you won’t read it because you just believe what you believe, facts be damned.

        • Nessa MrsJean Pierre

          Are You STUPID Or Did You Not Read WHERE It Clearly Says That Evidence Was Withheld And Fabricated. Did you read the decision…did you read the witness statement identifying 3 whites or white Hispanics? Did you read anything? Obviously not… did you read that there was no evidence against him. Every pc of evidence against him was fabricated and the evidence that proved his innocence was destroyed? Did you read a dam thing…some audacity u have coward ass racist. I love how yall hide behind screen names but can’t stand strong behind your ideology.

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            you need to follow up-the witness recanted the (3) people idea-he said it was only one-Cooper. There was TONS of evidence against him (hint-the car he stole, his shoe print, the blood)

        • Nuur Jiir Aamusane

          What part of the trail you didn’t understand if you are not just stinky skin head. Go back and read, the eye witness said they were three white or spanic Looking man who commit the crime+ it only took four minutes to kill every body.
          Fuck you!! How long you want to kill the Africans senselessly??

          • Adam Vant

            Kevin Cooper is a vicious murderer. His execution will be a blessing to the people of California.

          • Olive Seraphim

            you can repeat this lie til you’re blue in the face but it doesn’t make it true. The fact that you can’t respond to anyone’s actual comments and questions further proves that you have zero basis for this conclusion besides your own prejudice

          • Adam Vant

            “As the district court, and all state courts, have repeatedly found, evidence of Cooper’s guilt was overwhelming. The tests that he asked for to show his innocence ‘once and for all’ show nothing of the sort.” — Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d 870 (9th Cir. 2007). Read it and weep. Death to Kevin Cooper!

          • Joan Maglitto

            Adam Vant are you related to one of the victims?

          • jfoster13

            You are acting like this is personal and you come off as just wanting the guy to die regardless of whether there are questions about his innocence. I hope you’re not a cop and damn sure hope you’re not in the justice system. It is people like you where innocent people are convicted. It’s just a numbers game to you.

          • Adam Vant

            It’s not personal at all. Kevin Cooper is a vicious murderer who was tried, convicted and sentenced to death for his brutal crimes. His case was reviewed by the California Supreme Court which found the evidence of Cooper’s guilt overwhelming. So did the 9th Circuit. Cooper is guilty and his execution should have taken place long ago. Hopefully it will take place soon. When Cooper is executed I will say “HOORAY FOR CALIFORNIA!”

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        sorry, dummy-but the evidence is 100% solid-how dare any of you question the solid work of the police and courts. The survivor deserves closure-this killer must (and will) die!!!

    • Cee jay

      Even if he is innoçent and the real killers are still running free? How is that “justice “? So,it doesn’t matter to you as long someone is killed in exchange for these murders?

      • Adam Vant

        Yeah, Cee jay, the “real” killers are hanging out with the “real” killers who murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Simpson. Dolt.

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        they got the right guy-100% positive

    • msmojo

      SUCK MY BALLS YOU MOLDY TROLL

      • Adam Vant

        Death for Kevin Cooper! Slow painful excruciating death!

    • John

      I will cheer louder when you die and hopefully there will be suffering involved!

    • JackLinks

      I hope and pray that when your time comes you’ll be brutally raped, with your family watching, until your last breath is squeezed out of you!

      • Adam Vant

        When my time comes I will die peacefully surrounded by my loving family, all of whom will have lived productive law-abiding lives and none of whom will have brutally murdered 4 people like Kevin Cooper did. Will anyone even claim Kevin Cooper’s body after he’s executed? At least it’ll already be embalmed!

    • Charles Hill

      did you not see that 3 white or hispanics did the crime, does that even matter to you or is it just another nigger dead for you?

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        nope-the witness said it was ONE person

        • Ben Mullins

          Then tell us all why he had originally said 3. And even said that they may have been caucasian or hispanic. And then why did he recant that later on in the trial? How do you mistake 1 for 3? Or white from black? Just curious as to what your thoughts are here?

          • NORMAN DOSTAL

            look him up-he explained very clearly why he said three (hint-three Mexican workers came by earlier and he was confused). He cleared it up when he actually was able to speak. Remember, this was a traumatized child. Its all documented. he didn’t say white-it was dark-he couldn’t see very well.

  • Erica

    Before we decide if he should get out can we know what he escaped prison for the first time….? IJS

    • charles braswell

      He’s not getting the death penalty for escaping prison! One has nothing to do with the other!

      • jrube

        I think he means what was he in prison for? What was his crime that landed him there in the first place.

        • NORMAN DOSTAL

          robbery and rape

  • cupcake333

    there.is.nothing.to.decide.on…the.man.didnt.do.it…..they.alway.diggin.up.some.blaackma.on.criminal

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      he did it-100% positive

  • Steven Runyon

    Who cares, I’m just glad that they are starting to reboot the killing factory in Cali after shutting it down for these last few years. Line em up boys and start throwing out the trash.

    • jrube

      I’ll bet if it was your loved one or yourself in his shoes you’d be singing a different tune.

      • NORMAN DOSTAL

        Cooper had no loved ones-he is human shiit and must die for killing 4 people

  • Steven Runyon

    In other news blacks continue to kill eachother at a staggering rate but they don’t care about that.

    • Terri Meredith

      in other categorically ignored news, whites continue to kill each other at a staggering rate, but you don’t care about that, because it doesn’t fit your racist template/narrative.

      • Steven Runyon

        Actually Blacks kill blacks at a higher percentage and the rate they kill eachother is actually pretty impressive considering they only make up 12% of the population. Sorry your race is such a blight on our country but the good news is there is only so much evil you can due to everyone since you are only 12% of the population. Have a nice day.

        • fukhowufeel305

          Actually your race has committed more murderers and heinous crimes through out the history of the world than any other race so get your facts straight !!! racist piece of crap

          • Terri Meredith

            Runyon doesn’t want to know that….Runyon easily reads only within that comfort zone that all racists adhere to. Runyon will have to have someone explain this to him. Runyon will feel small, but he will still “act” big. it doesn’t matter. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43

          • fukhowufeel305

            Absolutely couldn’t have said it better !!!

          • maggie m

            thanks. Lets talk crime and getting away with it …

            Perhaps one should begin by reminding this fool that however much he wants to pretend, the “light skinned” of this world – and particularly of these Americas did not become so due to mere chance or because black females jumped the bones of white men.

            It was because young black women and girls, some 10, 11, 12 years old, mere children, many barely of child-bearing age, like the ones he has in his family and the ones his friend “ADAM VANT” believes will surround him lovingly at his death, were RAPED in the thousands by men like him, his daddy, grand-daddy and great-grand-daddy. We will not get into a long discussion about the YOUNG BOYS they similarly violated. Their ancestors have never admitted it, taken responsibility for it and even in this modern era continue to get away with rape and murder.

            You should therefore not expect more from a person who likely came out of a line of rapists and murderers. We would not expect him to have concern for the truth or for justice.
            IT WASN’T until 1959 that a white man was arrested, charged, convicted and sentenced for the rape of a black woman. These 4 fools laughed all the way to the police station – so confident were they that they would get off as all their other brothers and daddies had done

            THIS LINK is just one example of white “justice”, rape and “the law”!
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Jean_Owens

          • fukhowufeel305

            Exactly……I’ve notice racist always want to point out the Black race as criminals but fail to see or don’t care that crimes in the past and to date are still being committed by a race that have killed,stolen and raped from every other race in the history of the world …smfh shouldn’t expect them to understand nor care you’re right !!!

          • Ben Mullins

            1- Don’t trust everything you read on wiki (though most of this post is dead accurate)
            2- Please name an area in the world back before civilization was the way it is today, where men weren’t marrying, impregnating and/or raping young girls as soon as they had their first period. Or the young boys that they raped also. It wasn’t just white European men. It was happening all over the world. Even in Africe and South America. Even in the Asias. It happened everywhere. It still does in many under developed countries.

            So you too my friend, come from a long line of rapists, incest, and murderers.

            Please, don’t mistake what I’m saying for excusing the slave trade and the way ‘our people’ participated in the trade. The fact that racism is still such a HUGE factor in the United States is disgusting! It’s going to take another 40 days and 40 nights of rain to fix the human race…

          • Ben Mullins

            Just to be clear, the term race, is a very broad generalization considering the fact that “white” regardless of anyone’s heritage, is used to ‘classify’ most anyone not said to be hispanic, asian, mediterranian or black. And given the amount of ‘white’ people on this earth, statistics would indeed point to ‘whites’ as having the higher rates of crimes and murders.

            That being said, Steven Runyon is a racist POS and should be embarrassed to hold onto such beliefs and ignorance. I can’t stand folks like him!

        • Terri Meredith

          you are unfortunate…AND boring…what a pathetic combination. Go busy yourself by distinguishing how one of your fingers smell from the other and why. Put some facts down there for you in another comment. That’s me being kind and giving you credit for being able to analyze compiled information. You’re welcome.

        • Darlene R

          The way your women hump black men, that 12% is going to increase drastically. When are you moving?

        • DarthYan

          actually no. The amount of black on black crime goes down and statistically whites committee far more murders. Maybe 5% of blacks have committed crimes in the US

        • DarthYan

          actually blacks are less likely

  • Athena

    If you want to do something about this Call and e-mail the California Governor Jerry Brown and demand the release of innocent Kevin Cooper.Tell him he will directly be responsible for the murder of an innocent man if he doesn’t decide to release Kevin Cooper from the Death Penalty and prison. Governor Jerry Brown c/o State Capitol, Suite 1173 Sacramento, CA 95814 Phone: (916) 445-2841 Fax: (916) 558-3160. It carries more gravity if you are actually from California and a constituent but if he gets a flood of e-mails and calls demanding this he will know people are paying attention, no politician wants to be responsible for the death of an innocent person (and have people know about it).

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      Cooper is guilty and he must die-the proof is overwhelming

  • Gemma

    They forgot one critical piece of information. The police tracked him down because he was driving the murdered family’s car, yet he wasn’t near the crime scene. Coincidence?

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      yeah-stupid bleeding heart liberals dont care about logic

    • DarthYan

      fun fact; the car was found AFTER cooper was confirmed to be in mexico

  • jrube

    This is heart breaking to say the least. I wish someone could do something, hopefully the Gov will see how criminal his conviction is and set him free and also charges being made against the crooked SOB’s who got him convicted. IMO the only reason the Gov wouldn’t do it is because the state doesn’t want the possibility of having to pay out millions in a law suit against them.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      nope-he did ti-got a fair trial-he murdered children!!!

  • Adam Roger Kearley
  • guest

    It is cheaper now for the States to kill him than pay him out after he’s freed. This is the world we live in. No law, no group, no person, and no institution should bear the the rights to take another person’s life. None!

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      he did it-only bleeding heart fools question it-the evidence cannot be countered

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      if you kill, you must die-case closed (he killed four times-too bad he cant be tortured first!!)

  • John Derry

    See when a race of people grow up feeling and being self Intitled,Even when their wrong nobody wants to play fair and the bottom Line is they place no Value on us brown folks. And we are wrong for doing the same right? Cross me you get Exposed and eletrictronicly Labeled due to the people who do care about me worldwide!Johnjon cannot hide.

  • Johnny Cage Jr.

    that’s the most stupid thing ever.why are you going to execute an innocent man??this country has no sympathy for black men

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      hes not innocent (hint-read up on the evidence)

  • Angel27

    Wow blacks killing each other….I’m not racist but whites killing each other also and killing them dam selves can u say suicidal such a jerk

  • Karye Ann

    He should be released and the prosecutors should be tried. Not prosecuting the police and lawyers who do these things, ensures it will happen over and over again.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      no, stupid-he did it-the evidence is OVERWHELMING

  • AndrewM.(banned from Facebook)

    The State should never have a right, you, a person, can’t have. The State should not be allowed to murder if we, the people can’t commit murder.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      youre dumb-we get one life-no heaven, no hell-you kill, you MUST die

  • GOP FREE

    If he was white this could not / would not happen.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      wrong, dummy-white people that murder are also executed (hint-most people executed are white)

    • DarthYan

      there have been some pretty egregious cases. David Spence and Johnny Garrett are two examples. Then again they’re from texas

  • Beelzebub

    Lynch this N*GGER

  • hitmhard313

    This is why the system of racism white supremacy has to be destroyed

  • Kelly Payne

    THE SHERIFF S AND THE PROSECUTOR NEED TO BE ARRESTED AND CHARGED. IF HE IS EXECUTED THE CHARGES SHOULD INCLUDE MURDER. MURDER.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      nope-he did it-no doubt

    • DarthYan

      I agree. If Brown does order tests and they clear Cooper Heads are going to role. DA Kottmeir and DA Kochis are going to be disgraced. Gregonis may have his other corrupt cases (come on someone as dirty as him forged evidence). The officers still alive are going to be sued in a way that makes Avery’s first lawsuit look tame. It will cut to the heart of the corrupt san bernadine

      • Lisa O’Brien

        Governor Brown cannot order testing, DarthYan. Given that all prior testing has further proven Cooper’s guilt, additional testing will not exonerate him. He will also be unable to prove tampering that didn’t happen.

        Gregonis’ testimony was not the reason William Richards’ conviction was vacated. I have corrected that assertion twice. That you still claim it was Gregonis says that you are being delibertely dishonest.

  • http://shryve.webs.com/ William

    Added to this tragedy is the fact that the real killers of those people have been free since 1983. Who knows how many other people they have killed in years pasted.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      no, stupid-all evidence points to Cooper-there is no doubt-its 100%

    • DarthYan

      The likely killers are lee furrow kenneth soon and michael darnell. koon said his fess could be used since he doesn’t think cooper deserves to die; he also volunteered hair. Furrow started a family and lived in philidelphia before moving back. He hasn’t been in any crimes but I think he realizes if he does they may look into him for the ryens. Don’t know what happened to darnell.

      But Koon seems to feel some level of remorse for what happened. If he confesses it may save cooper

  • Evelyn Khelama

    Purchase the book “One Hundred Years Of Lynchings” by Ralph Ginzburg, which documents how the criminal justice system covered up insidious efforts by law enforcement to falsely accuse and convict black people from the turn of the century through the early 70’s. Then read “Slavery By Another Name” by Douglas Blackmon, Wall Street reporter, for more documentation on legal corruption with racism as its driving force. The hatred interwoven in this society at its very core and foundation is diabolical and bizarre in its scope and practice. Black Americans should have followed the Native American model: separate, sovereign and equal. It is the only way their survival could be assured.

  • Nikki

    Food for thought! They allowed this man to escape so they could murder the family!

  • Nikki

    Food for thought! They allowed Mr. Cooper to escape, so they could murder the family.

  • dipdawg

    they do not execute anyone in Kalifornia.

    • NORMAN DOSTAL

      they will

  • NORMAN DOSTAL

    no-this article is incorrect. the child who identified the three white or Mexican people later said he was confused because three Mexicans came by earlier that day to do work. He remembers only ONE person the night of the killings. Besides that, all evidence including the blood, the shoe print, etc pointed to only one man-Cooper

    • Ben Mullins

      So given your confidence in the system, why couldn’t the prosecution have convinced this child to stick with the 3 ‘Mexicans’ coming by the house that day, as his argument for why he thought he saw 3 men murder his family? I mean, seriously. If 3 dudes stopped by your house and asked for work, and then later that night, 1 man came in and killed your family, would you seriously get the 2 incidents confused?!

      • Lisa O’Brien

        A person with severe head injuries would likely confuse the two incidents. In fact, Josh’s initial statements may have been related to the evening before the murders precisely because of the head injuries inflicted by Cooper. People with head injuries often cannot remember anything about the events immediately preceding their injury.

        • DarthYan

          Really? Someone would confuse 3 dudes asking for work with ONE man attacking. Josh was saying AS LATE AS OCTOBER that he wasn’t sure cooper did it. The psychiatrist who worked with Josh said she believed the cops manipulated him

  • Tmoe

    They would rather kill him than pay him! Shame! I hope that he somehow gets out and own the entire city!

  • tay

    So Norman, (god I hope not) if he dies and its proven later that he didn’t do this crime how would you feel if the person who did it is still alive? That’s how almost everyone else here feels. There’s enough evidence to prove it was falsified by police. He had the families car. That’s it. The print was found after the police arrested him and stripped him of everything and went back to the house cooper stayed in and planted it there. The only thing they can tie this man to is the speck of blood found on the wall, which they can’t really tie it to him because once again it was falsified and PUT THERE he is innocent and it seems to be that you are the only one who doesn’t think so. How can you say hes guilty and u haven’t read about the mounds of evidence that was again FALSIFIED.
    #freekevincooper2016

    • Lisa O’Brien

      People made the same arguments about Roger Keith Coleman. In 2006, posthumous DNA testing conclusively proved his guilt.

      Cooper has consistently failed to prove that the evidence used against him was planted. He made those allegations at trial and the jury convicted him. He made the allegations in state and federal post-conviction litigation and the courts found that he failed to prove the allegations.

      Cooper disposed of his shoes, so the police couldn’t have used the shoes to “plant” any evidence in either the Ryen or Lease houses. Cooper denied stealing the Ryen’s car, but cigarette butts, hairs and the victims’ blood tied him to the car. The blood drop was found, photographed and preserved before Cooper’s arrest on July 30, 1983. Cooper’s DNA expert at trial also confirmed the findings of the SBSD crime lab.

      The burden is on Cooper to prove his claims in court and he hasn’t done that in 33 years of post-conviction litigation.

      • DarthYan

        a.) That’s not even remotely true. McKeowen conceded that the evidence was murky at best, saying that evidence was lost. The only reason she didn’t do more? The AEDEPA act of 96.

        b.) given that the shoe prints were found weeks later in the lab after Baird got his hands on Pro Keds, Cooper probably wasn’t even WEARING Pro Keds and the “prints” were never there until Baird put them there

        c.) The hairs were inconclusive, and the ones that were tested were the ones that fell out. Also, most of the hairs STILL haven’t been tested yet.

        d.) The blood was found on the BACK SEAT and passenger seat (are you really suggesting Cooper climbed all over it like a monkey)

        e.) see the fact that it kept reappearing after vanishing

  • Scooter Livingston

    i’m waiting for Dudley Sharp and his pal Jim Woodward to slither in here. Sharp will spout a lot of BS and constantly cite from his pathetic blog; Woodward will call us all a bunch of “damn liberal fools”

    • DarthYan

      do you live in CA by any chance? I told a friend that this was in CA. He was shocked.

      • Scooter Livingston

        No, in Florida where we have a psychotic killer named Rick Scott as governor.

        • DarthYan

          Are there any executions in recent years that have been dubious (I mentioned Kevin Cooper in California) in florida? Texas has legions (just go to skeptical juror). Johnny Garret, Carlos De Luna, David Spence, Cameron Willingham, Gary Graham, Claude Jones are the big ones but there are legions of others. Cooper is shocking because Cali is supposed to be one of the liberal states.

          PS fun fact; one of the main justifications is that witnesses said they saw a hatchet in the house. The problem is that there were black paint chips in the hatchet wounds…..yet the hatchet didn’t have paint on the blade. Also the mother of one of the victims kept talking to the witnesses asking what they told the defense investigator. Yeah, THAT won’t make them potentially biased.

          • Scooter Livingston

            You said the magic words “Cameron Todd Willingham.” That will summon the Evil DS Spirit. He will the post all his crap, citing his own blog as per his MO.

            There have been a few here in Florida as well.

          • DarthYan

            other than leo jones (notably even the governor who approved the death, spite of being trigger happy, was a lot more reluctant) I can’t think of any. Would you be willing to enlighten me?

          • Scooter Livingston

            One that comes to mind is Jesse Tafero.

            “Jesse Tafero was executed by electric chair in 1990 for murdering two Florida police officers, Phillip Black and Donald Irwin. The murders occurred on Feb. 20, 1976, when Black and Irwin approached a parked car at a rest stop and found Tafero, his partner Sonia “Sunny” Jacobs, her two children and Walter Rhodes asleep inside. They were ordered to get out of the car when the officers saw a gun lying on the floor inside the car and, according to Rhodes, Tafero proceeded to shoot both officers and took off in their police car. They disposed of the police car and stole a man’s car, but were arrested after being caught in a roadblock. The gun was found in Tafero’s waistband, although it was legally registered to Jacobs. Tafero had been convicted of robbery and had served seven years of a 25-year sentence before being convicted for murder. Tafero and Jacobs claimed that Rhodes was the lone shooter, but Rhodes testified against them in exchange for a lighter sentence. Rhodes later admitted that he was responsible for the killings, but Tafero was still sentenced to death.”

            http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-infamous-cases-of-wrongful-execution.html

            Jones was executed under the watch of so-called “Liberal” Lawton Chiles.

          • DarthYan

            Ah yes I heard Tafero. Leo Jones is the other I’ve heard of but are there other similar ones you can think of? Those two are the ones that really stand out. In Jones case even the trigger happy governor spent a lot more time than usual considering the verdict and two supreme court justices were opposed.

          • DarthYan

            any other cases

  • DarthYan

    If Governor Brown has integrity he’ll order tests.

    One thing that is encouraging; one of the more likely killers (Ken Koon) seems to feel some remorse for his role in the crime. He said his confession could be used even if he denied making it and he volunteered to submit hairs for mitochondrial testing even when Lee Furrow refused. If Koon took part he may confess like Matias Reyes did in 2002. If that happens Brown may order a test and if that happens either the DNA will truly affirm his guilt or more likely it will implicate furrow and his buddies. If that happens……heads are going to roll

    • Lisa O’Brien

      DarthYan, Governor Brown cannot order testing in the Cooper case, or any other. The most he can do is commute Cooper’s death sentence to life in prison.

      Your characterization of Koon’s alleged confession is also not an accurate one:

      “An ex-convict identified by defense attorneys as a possible killer in the Kevin Cooper murder case denies any involvement in the crimes.

      “Cooper’s attorneys, who won an eleventh-hour stay of execution for their client on Monday, argue that Kenneth Koon confessed to the hatchet killings of a Chino Hills family and houseguest while he was in prison in 1984. But Koon said Friday that they “don’t have their stories straight.

      “I didn’t have anything to do with the murders,” Koon said in an interview from his Tennessee home. “That story was fabricated.”

      * * *

      “He said Friday that he was serving time at Vacaville State Prison in 1984 for petty theft when his cellmate, Anthony Wisely, concocted a story about the confession and took it to authorities in hopes that it would help him win an early release.

      “Koon said he had no firsthand knowledge of the killings, and had only shared with Wisely stories his then-wife told him.

      “He fabricated everything so he could get out of prison,” Koon said. “He knew I wasn’t involved. He was just looking for a way to get out of there.”

      “Koon’s ex-wife is Diana Roper, the Mentone woman who called police in 1984 and reported her suspicions that her former boyfriend, Lee Furrow, committed the murders.

      “As proof of her theory, Roper gave deputies a pair of purportedly bloody coveralls that she said Furrow wore the night of the killings. She also said that Furrow’s hatchet had disappeared from his back porch, according to a sheriff’s report.”

      * * *

      “Koon said he spoke openly with Wisely about Roper’s theory about Furrow, which is what gave Wisely the ammunition to fabricate the confession.

      “Koon said that he did not meet either Furrow or Roper until after the murders, and that aside from his relationship with Roper, he had no other contact with Furrow.

      “I had a very strong dislike for Furrow,” Koon said. “I would never had gone to the bar and had a drink with him, let alone commit a murder with him.”

      “Detectives interviewed Koon in prison in 1984 after Wisely reported the confession.

      “Koon, however, said at that time that he didn’t know Wisely had gone to the police about him. He said he assumed that investigators came to question him simply because of his relationship with Roper.

      “He said it wasn’t until 15 years later, during a meeting with Cooper’s investigator, Paul Ingels, that he learned that Wisely tried to implicate him.”

      http://lang.dailybulletin.com/projects/cooperwatch/news/021304_inmate_denies.asp

      The most egregious misstatement is that Koon has ever confessed directly to authorities, or investigators working on behalf of Cooper. Koon’s alleged confession was invented by Wisely.

      “ Considerably more than a mental patient’s secondhand version of a confession by Koon is required to demonstrate actual innocence.   See Schlup, 513 U.S. at 324, 115 S.Ct. 851;  Thompson, 523 U.S. at 559, 118 S.Ct. 1489.   The post-conviction DNA testing confirms Petitioner’s guilt and refutes Petitioner’s allegations regarding Koon. Item A-41 is from an African American, (93 RT 4424);  Koon is white.   Petitioner’s DNA is found on the cigarette butts in the Ryen station wagon.  (See Supplemental DOJ Physical Evidence Exam Report dated Sept. 24, 2002.)   Petitioner’s blood and Doug Ryen’s blood are on the T-shirt found near the crime scene.  (See Supplemental DOJ Physical Evidence Exam Report dated Sept. 24, 2002.)   The mitochondrial DNA testing and EDTA testing have not undermined the post-conviction DNA testing results confirming Petitioner’s guilt.   The Court previously considered and adjudicated Petitioner’s claims regarding mental patient Wisely’s account, and the Court affirmed the ruling and denied a successive petition.  Cooper I, 92-CV-427, Aug. 25, 1997 Order.   This Court has further evaluated the allegations in light of all the evidence, and DENIES the claims on the merits.”

      http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1117715.html

      • DarthYan

        a.) Not true. It IS under his power to order an investigation into the matter under Article V, Section 8(a) of the California Constitution. Under Article V Section 8(a) he can order a reprieve of Kevin Cooper, he can order an investigation through the power of the governor’s office, can permit cooper’s team to have tests performed, ensure that cooper’s attorney’s have access to documents like Siuzdak’s raw data, and pardon cooper if the evidence proves it. So no, Brown CAN actually ensure tests are done.

        b.) Also the cigarette butts were found LARGER and REROLLED when it came time for testing, were found on the THIRD search of the car (the reports of the first two don’t mention them).

        c.) Koon DID say that his statements could be used since he didn’t think Cooper deserved to burn. He also volunteered to submit hairs for mitochondrial testing

        d.) The mitochondrial hairs that were tested had already been tested, and lacked antigen roots, meaning they fell out. The ones found in the victim’s hands were never tested. The hairs in the bathroom were never mitochondrially tested.

        e.) Given that A41 had a history of reappearing after vanishing and being “consumed” AND the fact Gregonis lied about opening the seal on the envelope (combined with VV2 having TWO sets of blood) I’m not really going to take their word

        • Lisa O’Brien

          “CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
          ARTICLE 5 EXECUTIVE

          SEC. 8. (a) Subject to application procedures provided by statute,
          the Governor, on conditions the Governor deems proper, may grant a
          reprieve, pardon, and commutation, after sentence, except in case of
          impeachment. The Governor shall report to the Legislature each
          reprieve, pardon, and commutation granted, stating the pertinent
          facts and the reasons for granting it. The Governor may not grant a
          pardon or commutation to a person twice convicted of a felony except
          on recommendation of the Supreme Court, 4 judges concurring.”

          Contrary to your false statement, the above article does not give the Governor the power to do anything more than grant or deny clemency. No powers to order investigation or testing are contained in the article.

          The cigarette butt arguments have been considered and rejected by the courts and jury. The horse is dead, Darth Yan. Please stop beating it. You are welcome to your opinion, but that doesn’t mean I have to change mine.

          Koon will not testify under oath that he was involved in the murders. He provided a declaration to the State denying involvement in the murders and detailing his alibi for the night of June 4-5, 1983. Yes, he’s willing to let Cooper’s advocates say he confessed, but he is not willing to actually confess to something he did not do. You also ignore the fact that Koon had no relationship with Furrow at the time of the murders. His only contact with Furrow came through Diana Roper.

          You are the one who is lying, DarthYan. Ten hairs from Jessica’s right and left hands and three hairs found on Doug Ryen and Chris Hughes’ bodies were also tested. That is a total of 13 hairs that were tested in 2004:

          “On August 2, 2004, Dr. Melton submitted a report regarding the results of the
          mitochondrial DNA testing. (04-CV-656, Doc. No. 155, Mitochondrial DNA Testing
          Report (“Dr. Melton’s Report”).) According to the report, the hairs contained in Jessica
          Ryen’s hands were either animal hairs or hairs from Jessica herself or from someone
          maternally related to her. (Dr. Melton’s Report at 6-8.) Two of the ten hairs selected by
          Dr. DeForest, Petitioner’s expert, were from domestic dogs. (Dr. Melton’s Report at 3.)
          The results confirmed that Jessica Ryen, Peggy Ryen, and Josh Ryen and their maternal
          relatives could not be excluded as the donors of the tested hairs, including the hairs found
          in Jessica Ryen’s hand. (Dr. Melton’s Report at 6-8.)

          “Six days of hair analysis in post-conviction DNA testing plus mitochondrial DNA
          testing of hairs have been conducted to address Petitioner’s claim that a third-party
          assailant committed the crime.10 This Court has responded fully to the concern expressed
          by the Ninth Circuit regarding mitochondrial DNA testing of the blond or light brown
          hair in Jessica’s left hand. In fact, this Court allowed Petitioner to test hairs from both
          of Jessica’s hands. The Court also permitted the testing of two hairs from Doug Ryen’s
          right hand and one hair from Christopher Hughes. The testing failed to identify another
          assailant and confirmed that ll tested hairs most likely came from one or more of the
          victims.”

          https://www.casd.uscourts.gov/Attorneys/FileReview/Lists/Noteworthy%20Filings/Attachments/1/Order%20Denying%20Successive%20Petition%20for%20Write%20of%20Habeas%20Corpus%2004cv656.pdf

          None of the tested hairs belonged to third-parties. None of the hairs tested belonged to Koon, or Furrow, or Darnell. The hairs belonged to the victims.

          Cooper did not seek to test the hairs from the Lease house. That is likely due to the fact that he did not want to get another inculpatory result.

          DarthYan, I have provided you with Blake’s testimony regarding A-41. That you chose to ignore that and continue to claim that it “mysteriously” reappeared demonstrates your dishonesty.

          • DarthYan

            Except most of the hairs were never tested. Some were, many weren’t.

            I’m saying that Blake’s a complete idiot and a buffoon. The spot vanished and reappeared MULTIPLE times. Gregonis said he discarded the paint chips back in 84 even when one appeared in the vial

          • Lisa O’Brien

            The hairs from Jessica’s hands and the ones found on Doug and Chris’s bodies were tested. They belonged to members of the Ryen family.

            Blake provided a reasonable explanation regarding A-41. Why are you personally attacking him?

          • DarthYan

            Because he based his results on the idea Gregonis was acting in good faith. Givent hat Gregonis admitted on the stand to changing his lab notes, that he didn’t do blind testing like he claimed and that the fact he wrote his name and date on the seal means he opened it (contrary to his claims). Blake’s explanations don’t cover wood chips. Gregonis said point blank he disposed of all of them……yet one suddenly shows up in the vial after he checks it out for 24 hours.

            Yeah if you believe Gregonis isn’t a craven liar I’ve got swampland to sell you. He forged evidence in the william richards case (The earliest crime scene photos show NO hairs in the victims hands, yet Gregonis’s video makes a show of him finding the hairs.)

            Blake refuses to consider that Gregonis was acting in bad faith. Considering that Sheriff Tidwell was stealing guns, and that Baird was stealing heroin he’s being kind of naive at best and at worst outright stupid.

            Here’s what Kenneth Koon said
            “But I also don’t believe he did it and I don’t think he should burn for it.”
            http://lang.dailybulletin.com/

          • Lisa O’Brien

            Blake performed his own tests in an effort to eliminate Cooper. He was not successful. That has nothing to do with Gregonis. As for his explanation regarding A-41, again, it has nothing to do with Gregonis. Blake’s testimony was based on his own firsthand observation of the vial and microscopic examination of the contents of the vial.

            Blake’s testimony was corroborated by Dr. Myers:

            “Mr. Bernstein: With A-41A, you described that as the blood powder, plus
            inside the tin there was a little open tube with a hole at the
            bottom and a paint chip inside it?

            “Mr. Myers: Correct.

            “Mr. Bernstein: And you combined the chip with the powder?

            “Mr. Myers: Not all of the powder, because that tube with the hole in it
            actually – – and I took a stereomicrograph of this – – had some
            of the powder adhering to the outside of the tube. So I
            swabbed the inside of the tin and I took the paint chip,
            combined those into making my DNA extraction sample. But
            whatever might have been adhering to the outside of that tube
            when the tube was put back into the tin, it still exists.

            “Mr. Bernstein: So you extracted the chip and the powder together?

            “Mr. Myers: The chip and the powder that I swabbed from the inside of the
            tin; but, as I said, there’s some powder that may still be
            present.

            “(See 04-CV-656, Doc. No. 28, NOL filed February 4, 2004 at 298-99.) ”

            Please post a link to testimony in which Gregonis says he disposed of the paint chip. I think you’ve confused the early statement that the A-41 sample was small and/or consumed in 1983.

          • DarthYan

            Fletcher mentioned that in his dissent. Since he had access to all the records I’m pretty sure he’s telling the truth there.

          • DarthYan

            more accurately it was based on the assumption that the blood hadn’t been tampered with

          • Lisa O’Brien

            William Richards’ conviction was not reversed because of Gregonis’ testimony, or his work on the case. It was reversed based on testimony regarding bite mark evidence given by Dr. Norman Sperber:

            “As a result, petitioner has shown that Dr. Sperber’s trial testimony constituted false evidence because that opinion has “been undermined by later scientific research or technological advances.” (§ 1473, subd. (e)(1).) The legislative history of the 2014 amendment of section 1473 bolsters our interpretation of that section. (Briggs v. Eden Council for Hope & Opportunity (1999) 19 Cal.4th 1106, 1120.)

            In re Richards, S223651 (Ca. May 26, 2016)

  • DarthYan

    fun fact; Officer Moran claimed never to set foot in the room; yet his prints were found on the closet door. Where the sheathe was found

  • FredZiffel

    Here are the circumstances of Cooper’s arrest. At the very least he is a violent sociopath and dangerous predator who is exactly where he belongs:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1983/08/01/us/suspect-in-california-slayings-captured-after-rape-on-boat.html

    • DarthYan

      except that the rape charges aren’t necessarily true; And no. You only put someone in jail for something they did. There’s no proof he killed the yens contrary to what mary ann and bill hughes believe. They trust the cops and can’t admit they were corrupt shitheads who forged evidence. They dishonor the memory of their son praying for the death of an innocent.

      • FredZiffel

        He was incarcerated for the first rape in Pennsylvania. That was proven legally and he was placed in a mental health facility. That is a fact. The second rape was not prosecuted because Santa Barbara County did not want to incur the expense of a lengthy trial of a defendant who was already facing capital murder charges. To hide behind that obvious legal reality is a further example of your disingenuity regarding this case. Other individuals with far more knowledge of both the legal system and this case have refuted all of your conspiracy theories, distortions and plain ignorance which is obvious to any objective review of your comments. You are repeatedly shown in the record where the facts contradict what you proclaim. You merely wait a few months and merely post them again. That only serves to make you look foolish. Your incoherent statement above reiterates that perspective.

        • DarthYan

          So the fact that Daniel Gregonis ADMITTED to altering his lab records when it turned out Cooper’s EAP was different from A-41, the fact that the guy who found A-41 and the “Pro Ked Dudes” was revealed to have stolen heroin to fuel his habits, that the Pro-Ked Dude Prints weren’t noticed until weeks later AFTER Baird got his hand on a copy of the shoes, that there were TWO sets of blood in the vial that contained cooper’s blood, that there were records showing a BLUE shirt covered in blood that was “lost” mysteriously, and that when the prosecution expert got similar results to the defense expert he refused to say how his lab was contaminated mean nothing? Judge Huff was an incompetent idiot who ignored basic questions

          I’m sorry. Lisa O’Brien cheerfully ignored things which disagreed with her. Floyd Tidwell stole guns from lockup. Dennis Kotmeir admitted he destroyed the crime scene to hinder the defense. Even though Daniel Moran claimed never to have set foot in the room Cooper stayed his fingerprints were found on the closet door. Those facts alone prove the cops were dirty enough to plant evidence to suit their needs. The cigarettes were only found on the third search…..down the PASSENGER side of the floor, vanished, and appeared REROLLED and larger. The hatchet that killed Peggy had black pigmentation on the blade (there were black paint in her wounds)….yet none of it was on the hatchet that went missing.

          Norman and Lisa don’t really understand the case. They basically take the prosecutor’s at face value and refuse to concede that maybe they forged evidence or lied. Norman’s basically been saying SHUT THE FUCK UP HOW DARE YOU IMPLY THE COPS ARE LIARS. He even sent me a death threat saying he hoped my family got killed. Lisa ignored multiple things that contradict the facts (that the prints were found weeks later in the lab…by William Baird who got fired for stealing heroin, that there were two sets of blood in cooper’s vial, which only makes sense if the cops were absurdly incompetent OR they planted someone else’s blood in there.) She also ignored that Lee Furrow left the music festival before 11:15 (giving him time to commit the murders), that the deputy who disposed of the bloody coveralls was proven to have lied about why he destroyed them (records showed he was in fact ordered by his superior to dispose of them), that even a deputy who was given the coveralls admitted they were soaked in blood, that one of the witnesses (Lance STarke) was threatened by the cops. She has no knowledge of the law and no knowledge of the case.

          I didn’t ignore the records. My “conspiracy theories, distortions and ignorance” are nothing of the kind. Even Judge McKeown (who AGREED to uphold Cooper’s sentence) stated point blank that the cops probably DID withhold evidence to suit their needs. The witnesses who claimed a hatchet was missing admitted that they spoke with Mary Ann Hughes before the trial (which would have tainted their impartiality). Even then the witnesses said that no knives were missing from the house, and that there wasn’t any rope missing (the closest example was from the RANCH, which Cooper never visited).

        • DarthYan

          Also as to why the judges didn’t demand an investigation…..they felt it wasn’t their place. Their jobs as judges is to give their rulings. Two former prosecutors have openly supported Cooper; 5 of the original jurors have openly declared doubts in Cooper’s guilt, as has Peggy Ryen’s sister. At least one of them said that if they knew about Lee Furrow they never would have voted guilty

        • DarthYan

          except you’re lying. The main thing that undoes you is that a.) it has been proven that multiple members of law enforcement lied. Moran’s prints were on the closet door even when he claimed not to set foot in the room. Gregonis’s name and the date on the seal prove he opened the envelope and thus the vial. Kochis claimed he informed the defense of the blue shirt when he did not.

          If anything you’re the only liar

          • FredZiffel

            Clearly you have comprehension skill issues among other things. Please put down the crack pipe and reread my post concerning Cooper’s two rapes. Then refute these assertions with any facts that are relevant. Don’t spend a lot of time because these facts are irrefutable. Stop posting extraneous unsubstantiated assertions that have nothing to do with my assertions and have already been refuted by others months ago (we all don’t don’t have deficit issues like you) and then claim that I am lying. Better yet, stop wasting your life on some psychotic rapist thief killer dirtbag and find something meaningful to do with your time and your life. Okay, now I’ll be signing off from this little slice of heaven with you as I have an appointment back on the planet Earth.

          • DarthYan

            Except a crime scene tech at trial admitted that the prints were moran’s and that they were a year old when pulled. Gregonis wrote his name and the date on the envelope seal…..proof he opened it

          • DarthYan

            Actually no it was driven. Gregonis admitted he changed his notes (saying it was “a simple mistake”); his name and the date were on the envelope seal….which only happens when you OPEN it. Two sets of blood where in the vial and Moran’s fingerprints where on the closet door where cooper slept. That means he lied through his teeth.

            You’re basically an apologist for the cops

        • DarthYan

          No I don’t. Norman opened the salvo when he responded to me. I forgot about it until he did. Then out of curiosity I checked again and saw that a lot of my posts were positively regarded. Scooter and Mads both agreed that my arguments were more logical than Norman’s who basically screamed at me for daring to imply the prosecutors were dirty (and given that tidwell was stealing guns and baird heroin, it’s not only probable but certain that they were dirty enough to frame cooper. This is a trial where people where holding monkeys with signs saying HANGE THE NIGGER. If you really think the cops weren’t racist you’re a fool

  • FredZiffel

    For the unethical journalist who is deleting my post concerning the circumstances of Kevin Cooper’s arrest, be aware that I will be monitoring your site and reposting this information as necessary. I will also then be including you in an analysis of media bias, disinformation and outright distortion and lying in this case. Again from the 1983 New York Times, for those who might be misled into thinking that Kevin Cooper is “innocent” or “a mere burglar”the facts which should prove to any open minded individual that Kevin Cooper is a dangerous psychotic rapist and murderer:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1983/08/01/us/suspect-in-california-slayings-captured-after-rape-on-boat.html

    • DarthYan

      Rapust isn’t a murderer dingus

  • DarthYan

    considering that the sheriff lead criminalist and head of rime lab (as well as at least one of the officers who searched the house were dirty), that the expert who tried to withdraw tests that would have proven the shirt contaminated with planted blood didn’t submit raw data, that the house evidence is pretty weak, that there were two sets of blood in the vial, and that multiple people confirmed seeing white dudes in blood…..yeah

    • Lisa O’Brien

      Cooper has failed to prove his allegations regarding Baird and they were dismissed in state and federal court during Cooper’s first round of post-conviction litigation.

      I’ve previously posted a response to your allegation regarding the EDTA testing, which you’ve obviously chosen to ignore.

      Dr. Siuzdak’s testing found 313 nanograms of EDTA in the blank control sample. That is evidence that the testing process in Dr. Siuzdak’s lab was contaminated by EDTA, a substance commonly used in labs. Cooper’s experts did not need Dr. Siuzdak’s raw data to confirm this contamination. The presence of EDTA in the blank control is evidence in and of itself of contamination.

      “Dr. Suizdak also conducted EDTA testing on the ten specimens. Dr. Suizdak was without the benefit of Dr. Ballard’s method for EDTA testing, as Dr. Ballard requested that his EDTA testing methodology be sealed.24 On October 27, 2004, after he had completed his EDTA testing and submitted his measurements to the Court, Dr. Suizdak retracted his report based on EDTA contamination. (04-CV-656, Doc. No. 322, Ltr. from Dr. Gary Suizdak to Court filed under seal on October 27, 2004). Dr. Suizdak had found significant levels, 313 nanograms, of EDTA in the PBS buffer reagent blank control sample where zero EDTA was the known control. PBS buffer reagent contains no EDTA. If the test had been properly carried out, the PBS buffer reagent blank control sample should have been found to contain zero nanograms of EDTA. According to both Dr. Suizdak and Respondent’s expert Terry D. Lee, Ph.D., the presence of EDTA in the control sample indicates that Dr. Suizdak’s samples were most likely contaminated by EDTA present in his lab prior to his testing. (Resp’t Analysis of EDTA Test Results filed Oct. 29, 2004, Lee Decl. ¶ 6.) As Dr. Lee explained, “once a sample is contaminated, there is no way to go back and obtain an accurate result.” (Id.) Because, in the absence of valid control specimens, the Court cannot rely on Dr. Suizdak’s results, it will focus its analysis on the results of Petitioner’s chosen expert, Dr. Ballard.”

      Cooper v. Brown, 510 F.3d 939.

      • DarthYan

        I’m saying that Siuzdak was lying. he could have EASILY submitted his raw data yet he didn’t.

        • Lisa O’Brien

          They defense did not need the raw data. The judge did not find that the defense needed the raw data. The results of the control buffer, which was supposed to be 0 nanograms of EDTA is evidence of contamination.

          • DarthYan

            Judge Huff already ignored the fact that the samples having EDTA and DNA made them invalid controls. And just because Huff FELT They didn’t doesn’t mean she was right.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I am referring to a single control, which is supposed to be EDTA free. Ballard had one and Siuzdak was supposed to have one.

          • DarthYan

            And you assume Siuzdak isn’t lying. At least one person before the IHCA openly doubts his sincerity.

          • Lisa O’Brien

            I have no evidence that he’s lying, based on the test results that he filed and based on the buffer control reading 300+ nanograms of EDTA when the reading was supposed to be 0 nanograms. What someone at the IHCA may or may not have thought is irrelevant. In reading the report, it appears that they adopted their conclusions directly from Cooper’s claims.

            Ballard’s results also refute the tampering allegation, given the fact that the EDTA detected in the blood stain that was allegedly planted was well below the level of EDTA contained in a blood vial.

      • DarthYan

        I’m saying Siuzdak lied through his teeth

        • Lisa O’Brien

          That’s your opinion, but you have nothing to support it, given that the results of the testing demonstration contamination in Siuzdak’s lab. The control buffer in Ballard’s testing read 0 nanograms of EDTA. That is the reading that is supposed to be obtained in valid, scientific testing. Siuzdak’s testing read 300+ nanograms of EDTA in a control buffer that was supposed to read 0 nanograms.

  • Caligula

    Even if he didn’t kill those four people, which the evidence proves he clearly did, he still has to be tried for rape and burglary charges from other crimes he did at that time. So calling this guy an innocent man is not only an insult to the 4 dead people and all his other victims, but downright ignorant.

    • DarthYan

      you punish someone for the crimes they did. Cooper was a ner’dowell. Even his supporters think he mellowed out in jail. But no he didn’t kill anyone. Lee Furrow Michael Darnell and Kenneth Koon did

  • DarthYan

    Let’s get several things down

    a.) Sheriff Tidwell was stealing guns from the locker room
    b.) Head of the Crime Lab William Baird (coincidentally the same guy who “found” the blood stain and pro ked dude prints, was stealing heroin from lockup (if anyone REALLY thinks such a man wouldn’t plant evidence I’ve got swampland to sell you.)
    c.) Gregonis openly lied many times; he claimed he conducted blind testing when he didn’t, he went back and altered his lab notes when it turned out Cooper’s EAP was different from the EAP of the stain, he claimed the stain A41 was consumed multiple times yet it always resurfaced, and he claimed he never opened the envelope containing A41 even though he wrote his name and the date on the seal (which is protocol for….opening the vial.)
    d.) Steven Moran claims he never entered the room where the sheathe and button were found….yet his prints were all over the closet door. Either he has a bad memory or he lied through his teeth.
    e.) O’Campo openly contradicted the nurse and Josh’s grandmother when he said Josh never mentioned multiple assailants and he refused to tape the interview or keep his notes.
    f.) Even though the logs confirm the existence of the blue shirt, Kochis lied and said it didn’t exist
    g.) Kottmeir ignored that Josh only referred to one assailant after October 1983, months later.

    2.)
    a.) When Cooper was arrested in August 83 he had his blood drawn. Yet the vial had the blood of TWO people in it.
    b.) Even though Siuzdak and Ballard were doing double blind testing they got very similar results
    c.) Siuzdak refused to submit his raw data (which would have allowed his claims of contamination to be assessed.
    d.) Stain A41 had a history of vanishing and reappearing
    e.) Gregonis openly lied about opening the vial.

    Conclusion: Gregonis and Siuzdak lied

    3.) The evidence from the house isn’t all that impressive

    a.) The Hairs in the sink had no antigen roots, meaning they fell out.
    b.) the expert admitted they were actually not conclusive
    c.) The “blood” was in a ring that stopped above the floor. Blood pools on the floor meaning that it probably wasn’t blood. Since Kathy Bilbia used bleach to clean the shower, and since bleach reacts to luminol it’s actually a decent argument that it was the bleach that was detected.
    d.) Cooper was wearing a BROWN jacket when he broke out, yet the button was from a GREEN jacket.
    e.) Moran lied about setting foot in the room, meaning he may well have planted the sheath there too.
    f.) The people in the house said the only place the rope would be found was in the ranch area, which cooper never entered.

    Conclusion: The only evidence was that Cooper was in the house, not that it was used in any capacity with the murder.

    4.) The Murder weapons weren’t from the house
    a.) In Peggy Ryen’s hatchet wound there was black paint, meaning it came from the blade. Yet the hatchet reported missing had no black paint on it
    b.) The people in the house gave contradictory answers on where the hatchet had been
    c.) Even though an ice pick and knife (maybe 2) were in the crime, none were reported missing from the house. What, did Cooper magically summon them out of thin air? Or take them from jail?
    d.) The witnesses admitted that they had been asked what they told the investigator by Mary Ann Hughes. This would have tainted the impartiality.

    Conclusion: The prosecution erred; the hatchet from Lee Furrow’s tool belt is more likely

    5.) The Pro Ked Dudes and A41 aren’t all that reliable
    a.) The Prints were only noticed weeks later, AFTER BAIRD got a copy of a pro ked dude. Given that the guy was stealing heroin, it’s cretinous to assume he would be above planting evidence.
    b.) The guy who said he gave Cooper the shoes recanted and was given cushy privileges for his testimony (Kottmeir wrote a recommendation to have his sentence reduced). Due to a callous on Cooper’s foot he had a dissension for tennis shoes or soft soled shoes.
    c.) A41 was found far from the massacre site
    d.) It was found later in the search
    e.) Luminol found no traces of blood BELOW the stain
    f.) It kept being “consumed” but reappearing.
    g.) Cooper’s EAP was radically different to the point Gregonis had to alter his notes
    h.) the tests conducted prevented the defense from doing their own.

    Conclusion: Two of the primary pieces of evidence are worthless

    6.) The Car wasn’t actually supporting Cooper’s guilt
    a.) Blood was found on the BACK and Passenger seats
    b.) The prosecution admitted the hairs weren’t conclusive (they couldn’t even say if they were pubic much less if they came from a black man)
    c.) The tobacco and cigarettes were found on the THIRD search of the car
    d.) The tobacco was found under the passenger seat and the butt was found in the gap of the passenger seat.
    e.) The hatchet as said earlier was thrown from the passenger side.
    f.) Even though Cooper was heading Southeast, it was ultimately found southWEST of the massacre site. If the prosecution theory is correct Cooper basically spent a while driving in the opposite direction before disposing of the car and somehow hitching a new ride. Uh Huh. Suuuuurrrrrreeeeeee.
    g.) Cooper had no ties to Long Beach (the place the car was found).

    7.) a.) Tim Wilson, a member of the department, admitted that he had heard reports of three white men covered in blood at the canyon corral bar even though he never spoke to sloanaker, wolfe and starke.
    b.) The police openly tried to intimidate Lance Starke (when he was at work an officer drove up and said “it would be in your best interests not to testify at the Cooper hearing.”)
    c.) Sloanaker was a phlebotomist, meaning it was her job to draw blood. As such her assessment that it was blood she saw makes sense.
    d.) There was a BLUE bloody t-shirt found (The reason the tan shirt was found was because they thought other evidence was in the area.) The police’s own bulletin, their logs, and the testimony of Laurel Epler prove the shirt did in fact exist and wasn’t the tan shirt like Kochis disingenuously claimed.
    e.) When the station wagon was found there was blood on the passenger seat and BACK seat, implying three people in the car and supporting the assertions of Diana Roper’s sister and Douglas Leonard and Linda Edwards who saw the white station wagon bursting away.
    f.) Three people (Douglas and Paula Leonard, Linda Edwards) claim they saw what looked like the Ryen’s station wagon driving away….with three white men in it.
    g.) The hatchet found was thrown out of the PASSENGER side of the seat.

    Conclusion: The three white men DID in fact exist and were the ones who committed the slaughter

    8.) Josh’s memories PROBABLY WERE manipulated by the police
    a.) Josh’s own psychiatrist claims that he said “I thought it was those three mexicans but than I saw on tv that it was really Cooper.” She also said at trial that he could not have perceived a lone figure and stated that she believed the cops manipulated Josh.
    b.) Cooper’s hairs were in braids at the time of the massacre. The only time Josh would have seen Cooper with a fro was when he was arrested on tv. He wouldn’t have seen an afro even if Cooper HAD been the doer.
    c.) On June 14th when Luis Simo was with Josh Cooper’s face came on tv and Josh said Cooper WASN’T the man who attacked him.
    d.) When Doctor Hoyle recorded the interview with Josh he took notes implying Josh mentioned multiple attackers.
    e.) Josh asked his uncle in October “are you sure they have the right guy.”
    f.) You’re probably not going to confuse three guys asking for work with one guy attacking you.
    g.) Experts say that eye witness testimony is usually the most reliable when it’s immediately given. As such the impressions given in the days right after the attack PROBABLY were more accurate.

    Conclusion: The police did in fact manipulate Josh’s memories by saying he was wrong. Seeing Cooper on tv with the news saying he did it shaped his opinion further.

    9.)
    a.) The station wagon was 2 blocks away from where Furrow’s stepmom lived.
    b.) The deputy who took the coveralls admitted they were “heavily splattered” with blood.
    c.) Furrow had an infinitely more violent record than Cooper did (Furrow strangled a girl, hacked up her corpse and dumped it in a river)
    d.) He doesn’t have an alibi. The police never checked his claims he left the fairground at 12:30 (roper claims he called at around 1:30) and since Roper’s sister confirmed Furrow HAD been at the festival yet didn’t see him after a certain time, it’s possible Furrow left early.
    e.) Furrow was also missing a hatchet from his toolkit, that was similar to the murder hatchet
    f.) Roper’s description of the missing shirt matches the shirt found from the scene.
    g.) As said earlier, multiple sources have attested to seeing three white men in a station wagon that looked like the victims. This adds credence to the sister’s statement about seeing a white car with multiple men in it.

    Conclusion: Lee Furrow and his buddies (Kenneth Koon and Michael Darnell) actually DO make sense as the killers

    10.) Kenneth Koon’s Confession
    a.) Even though Koon denied making the confession he said the defense could use it, because he doesn’t think Cooper deserves to burn. That’s…..a pretty unusual thing to say. When Roscoe Artis (now acknowledge to be the actual murderer of Sabrina Buie) was being interviewed his answers were “uh I don’t know who did it but it sure wasn’t Henry or Leon).
    b.) He volunteered to cough up hair to be tested for mitochondrial testing.
    c.) When asked about the AB ( a gang he allegedly belonged too) he immediately stopped the interview even though he had been quite talkative earlier.

    Conclusion: Koon was involved in some capacity, but in a lesser role than Darnell or Furrow. He may also feel genuine remorse for what happened.

    11.)
    a.) Cooper was an experienced Car thief. Even if the keys hadn’t been in the ignition, he would have been more than able to break in and drive off
    b.) he would have checked the ignition first
    c.) he would have not wanted to attract attention and slaughtering a family all but guarantees that
    d.) Cooper needed cash…..yet not a cent was taken from the house

    What I believe happened.

    Cooper fled into the night around 9 pm. Furrow and his crew arrived around 11:30 or so. Darnell and Furrow enter the house. Furrow kills Doug and Darnell kills Peggy. Jessica tries to flee the massacre. Koon sees this and heads inside wondering what’s going on. One of the two (Furrow or Darnell) drags her back into the house and stabs her to death (I’m betting Darnell). Furrow slashes Josh’s throat and hits him in the head. One of the two (either Darnell or Furrow) stabs Chris to death. All this happens at the same time (the only thing certain about the order is that Chris was the last to die and that Peggy was cradling Jessica as she died.) Either Furrow or Darnell grabs a beer from the kitchen and a towel from the bathroom. They steal the station wagon and drive away. They’re seen at the bar by multiple patrons (even those who don’t think it’s blood concede the white men acted pretty oddly.) Afterwards, they dispose of the two shirts they were wearing and change. They arrive at Roper’s house around 2:30, with Lee disposing of the coveralls.

    When the cops search the hideout house, they’ve already heard about Cooper’s escape. When Moran searches the house with his partner they find the nest, and decide Cooper has to be the one. Either at that moment or later, they plant the sheathe, for the employees to find the next day. Moran unintentionally leaves his prints on the closet door. Weeks later, after it’s been decided cooper did it Baird acquires a Pro Ked Dude and plants the prints on it. The rope is also planted in the mean time. When the car is found no cigarettes are found, but undeterred the cigarettes from the house are taken (hence why they go “missing”) and plant them. Because they’re inept they plant them in the passenger seat area. Evidence that could hurt the prosecution’s case is quietly disposed of.

    When it comes time for DNA testing, Gregonis withdraws the vial of A41, takes blood from Cooper’s vial, and either adds it to A41 or presents it as A41. Blood is also added to the t-shirt, either with or without the DA’s knowledge. The cigarettes “miraculously” reappear after Gregonis gets access to cooper’s saliva. That they are rerolled and larger doesn’t deter the prosecution.

    But why would the prosecution do this? Simple. They really think Cooper did it, and feel that any mean is justified in putting a killer away. Even if doubts emerge men have built their careers on this case. People have committed mass murder for similar reasons so it’s not that absurd to think that maybe they’d be willing to let the actual killers run loose.

    BUT WAIT! Debra Saunders says. Two experts who worked for Cooper are convinced of his guilt!!!!! Uh……two problems a.) that doesn’t change the shenanigans regarding the blood and b.) both of them have biases. Ingels is a former cop (who may not want to believe his fellows were dirty) and Blake admitted he relied on the tests, and admitting that the cops were dirty enough to plant the blood would shake his faith. They have reason to be invested.

    TL;DR: Debra Saunders is a complete idiot, the cops were dirty, the prosecution was dirty, the evidence against Cooper is as useful as a placebo is for treating the cold and Cooper’s supporters aren’t groupies, but rather sane.

  • DarthYan

    Lisa’s kinda dim all things considered